Tuesday, September 12, 2017

A Journey Into The Supernatural: The Seven Levels Of Scriptural Interpretation

Did you know that there are, at least, seven levels of scriptural interpretation? While other religious books have multiple levels of interpretation, the Bible sets itself way above the competition, showing that it is not only a Holy Book, but a supernatural message system, from God, himself.


While I will not take you into the weeds, I would like to show those who are interested, the seven levels, that is there, to help us dig deep into the Word of God, in order to edify ourselves and others. They are:

Literal: This is where you take the words in their usual or most basic sense, without metaphor or allegory. Reading, at the literal level, requires no special training. It says what it means and means what is says. Pretty straight-forward.

Metaphoric/Allegorical: Unfortunately, it is the level, which is most abused. It is a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance. It is close to the Model level, but usually not an accounting of an actual event.

For example: The scriptures refer to God as Elohim, which means, "Gods". This doesn't mean that God is multiple individual gods, but is a metaphorical reference to his multidimensionality. Another great example is how God has chosen to reveal himself, such as the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, A Great Fortress, a Rock, the Breath, etc. Again, it is not that God is multiple persons or gods, it is God's way of showing his multidimensionality to a lesser dimensional creature, such as us humans.

Modeling: Where the story is true, but has a multidimensional depth, which has a different literal message. A great example of this is the story of Melchizedek. The story of Melchizedek is a real historical event, but points to the Messiah. Genesis 14, Hebrews 7. While Melchizedek was a real person, his attributes reveal the Messiah. You can also go to Melchizedek: King of Salem for the full story. 

Moralistic/Legalistic: A moral, ethical or legalistic teaching through literal straight-forward, allegorical or other means. Examples are Y'shua/Jesus' parables, Sermon on the Mount, The Law, etc.

In my opinion, the next three are BIGGIES. This is where the Bible goes light years beyond other supposed holy books and their claims of being from God.

Prophetic: Where the story or interpretation is prophetic, the foretelling of a future person or event. Another super example of this level can be found in Daniel chapter nine, where Daniel gives the exact day of the Messiah's first coming. Read about it here at: Daniel Foretold The Exact Date Of The Messiah's First Coming

Codal: One of my favorites, for it shows God goes above and beyond to reward the diligent reader. It also a fulfillment of God's promise to the Remnant, found in Proverbs 25:2.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

It's a scriptural excerpt where the individual words, when put together, gives a message, to the reader. A great example of this one can be found within the genealogy of Genesis 5. Go to the following link for a great example. Supernatural Messages Embedded Within The Scriptures Biblical Codes are part of this level, but one must remember the literal first level, before indulging.

Personal: This is where God speaks to us and gives us a personal message through his scriptures. Even though Peter warns us, 2 Peter 1, about personal interpretations of the scriptures, an in-depth reading of his warning shows that scripture must interpret scripture. Therefore, your personal message must not go outside or go against the literal interpretation.

Now, have fun. But, remember, as we dig deeper into God's Word, remember Acts 17:11. 

Received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if it is true.

...and that's what you'll find, When You Search For The Truth.


78 comments:

  1. Good read. Have you ever thought about writing a book on how to study the bible? There many false teachers with guides of their own. Ha Ha. But, seriously, the world needs real study sources. You should give it a try or maybe YouTube.

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    1. Anonymous I agree with you! I've been encouraging him to do such things. He did start a YouTube channel but the creation of content takes time and learning curve so this just recent endeavor is a slow moving boulder.

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  2. A YouTube channel with true Messianic beliefs would be a great idea. There seems to be very few. The ones that I've seen have been repackaged traditional Christian ideologues. There's even a guy who wears a Tallit and Kippah, but clearly not a Jew, little alone a Messianic Jew. There are a lot of christians trying to get on the Messianic Jew wagon, these days. I wonder if these people know how silly they look. I honestly don't care if a teacher has a Jewish or Gentile background, as long as the Spirit is teaching through him.

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  3. Keith, By the way, I like this post. I never counted them before, but I agree with the seven levels you describe. I'm also glad that you tap all of them with your teaching. I've never heard anyone talk about the personal level before. I've actually experienced this. It's almost like you can hear the voice of God.

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  4. Thank you, Gentlemen! I appreciate your confidence in me. I praise God, for your eagerness for a deeper study of God's Word and a closer relationship with him. As Brandon said, I've been working on the YouTube channel and I promise I will persue it. God willing, I will begin on the Messianic teachings. Thanks again!

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  5. Hi Keith,
    I have always believed, as the scriptures say, it is only the Holy Spirit that can lead us into all truth.
    As 1 Corinthians 12 - 14 says:-

    'There is one body, but it has many parts. But all its many parts make up one body. It is the same with Christ. We were all baptized by one Holy Spirit. And so we are formed into one body. It didn’t matter whether we were Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free people. We were all given the same Spirit to drink. So the body is not made up of just one part. It has many parts.'

    It goes on to say that God has placed each part in the body just as He wanted it to be.
    I firmly believe that the body of Christ should operate as the scriptures tell us to do, each part sharing what they are given to share.
    One plants, one waters but it is only God Who adds the increase. No matter what anyone says we must always see what the Lord is saying to us personally.

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  6. Hi Brenda, I agree. We must always open our ears to how God speaks to us through his three witnesses, which are His creation, His Word and His Spirit. I think it is very important to remember that all of God's witnesses must agree with each other, before proclaiming it is from God. Unfortunately, I believe that is Paul's problem. He has taken the metaphorical interpretation of the Bible and allowed it to supersede the literal and the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

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  7. Brenda and Keith, do you think that God still talks to us today? On a one to one basis? Do you think that we can hear the audible voice of God?

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  8. Hi William. I believe that God speaks to us through the written Word on a one to one basis. However, when I had my near death experience I heard a voice saying 'It's not time yet you must go back.' I can not say whether it was God's voice or not.

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  9. Hey William, yes, I think God still talks to us, through many avenues, including through his Word and hearing his voice. However, God has a fail-safe built in. He will never say anything contrary to his Word.

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  10. I agree with all of this. I can't change anything. The only issue I have is, this would be subjective. Some may combine these and some may add more to this list. But I like the break down.

    Other models: Joseph and Isaac as Christ-like figures are huge!

    Where would poetic language fit in?

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  11. Hey Tim, I typically put poetry under metaphorical or allegorical heading. However, I have no problem making more classifications, as long as people reconcile it with the literal level.

    I totally agree that Joseph and Isaac are also models of the Messiah, I especially enjoy the fact that Eliezer, the servant in the story of Isaac being mentioned once early in the narrative, but never again, afterwards. Eliezer is the servant that goes, prepare and delivers the bride for Isaac. Eliezer means "God is my help, succour, supporter, comforter", which is a type or model of the Holy Spirit.

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  12. Tim and William, I agree with both of you. Models of Isaac, Moses, Joseph, Ruth are huge. I really like Ruth. Nice addition of Eliezer. Don't forget that Eliezer was Eliezer of Damascus, which means God is my comforter, silent as the sackcloth weaver.

    A weaver never makes any noise as he or she works on their loom, as they pass the shuttle back and forth all you hear is the gentle, silent wisp, as it passes through the yarn.

    The Holy Spirit does his job, without any fanfare. Remember what Y'shua said?

    "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me... and when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own."

    As for more levels or classifications, I agree that we could add one more, if you are inclined. Seven is complete, while Eight means a new beginning.

    Pretty Cool!

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  13. What about historical? That may be just a little different from literal.

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  14. I would think historical would fit into the literal, because it literally happened. But, you got my curiosity, how would it differ?

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  15. To all of those in the Biblical times, it wasn't history but it was literal.

    There are straight up words that mean exactly what they mean but that doesn't change the history. We have to remember that the Bible is also a history book. When I teach history there is something called contextual reading and close reading techniques. This is an investigative reading. We search for clues to find out about the times and we can understand why some things were written. For instance tell me the inside story to John 4:10 :)

    Yes, I will let you or others think awhile.

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  16. Just to add, William, why I believe God speaks to us now audibly:-

    Regarding that NDE, when I became born again of God's Holy Spirit I was soon after reading where Paul the apostle says that he knew a man who was carried away to the third heaven:-
    'I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. And I know that this man — whether in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows — was caught up into Paradise. The things he heard were too sacred for words, things that man is not permitted to tell.…'

    Here, it appears to show that paradise and the third heaven are the same place.

    I believe that could have been the place where I was taken to where I was told it was not time yet that I had to go back,(come back to this world) and that I had the same experience as that man. I was told things that were taken away from me, that I was not allowed to say - I knew that I had been given knowledge in that place that I was not allowed to share when I came back.

    Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that day. I think this shows us that those who believe in Him go to the third heaven at this time. He is the Word of God, and I believe that what He says to people is God's Word audibly, so 'Yes' I do believe that God speaks audibly to people - as I believe He did with me.

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  17. Tim, Now, you're changing perspective. Even though I agree wholeheartedly, but the post was written from our perspective.

    As for John 4:10, from before the time of Y'shua and up to approximately 70 AD, when water is mentioned to a Jew or Samaritan, it immediately brought forth the vision of daily washing in the laver, which is a daily reminder to be in God's Word.

    Here before the Samaritan woman, is the Word of God, in the flesh. The daily washing has come to her. From that point on, her spirit will never hunger. That same promise is ours to receive. The beauty of this is that immediately upon Y'shua's resurrection, the daily feeding was spread through all of God's creation, from the beginning to the end of time.

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  18. That's a cool testimony, Brenda. I like testimonies that shore up our hope in eternal life. Thanks.

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  19. Tim, I totally agree with the contextual reading. As for close reading, (I have to admit that I had to look it up) isn't that what this post is about, looking deep into the different levels? It appears that you are talking about what the post refers to as codal or modeling. Am I correct?

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  20. Keith, just to clarify, are you saying that the water is spiritual water? How is that literal? Wouldn't that be more physical?

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  21. Aha! Just joking.

    Here is what I mean about all of this and historical perspective. Jesus said to the woman, "Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”.

    The Samaritan woman said later that the Samaritans worship on this mountain, and so forth...

    I guess that goes back to when the Temple was being rebuilt. When the Israelites were returning, instead of going back to Jerusalem many were told just to stay at Mount Gerazim. Anyway, they have their own high priest. And the high priest that year for the Samaritans was a man by the name of Michael, which means gift of God.

    Jesus was saying if you knew the difference between Michael (the gift of God) and Me (the Son of God), you would ask Me. He was telling her that He is the high priest. Now without an historical perspective and close reading would we get to that input? That to me is different than literal.

    What do you think?

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  22. Tim, I like the what you've come up with. Contextually it fits too.

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  23. That's funny William. This exact subject came up during our Bible Study, this week. To answer your question, Yes, Spiritual is literal and physical. God created man in his own image, body, mind, spirit soul. That means God has them all. As you know, his body and our original created body has a dimensionality, way beyond ours. We know that what appears to us as instant teleportation and walking through solid walls are just a few things enjoyed with that type of body.

    We tend to think or confuse physical with exclusively flesh. However, God doesn't have a flesh-like body, he is spirit. Y'shua had a spiritual body, during the transfiguration and after the resurrection. It's different, but similar to our body, without the loss of dimensionality, which is due to our sin.

    We honestly can only imagine God's body, but it is still a literal body. Your thoughts?

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  24. I agree, Brandon. I like it, too, Mr. Tim. I also like the idea of regardless of what new stuff comes along, the original is still the best.

    Are you done with all your grading?

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  25. ‘The Seven Levels Of Scriptural Interpretation.’

    Wow, my friends :-o those are a lot of levels and many will debate that there are even more than seven levels.
    It sounds to me that only the learned few are able to understand the Scriptures. Perhaps it is just like the blind who leads the blind and you know what happens to both of them.
    It seems to me that religious people always make the simple and narrow way of the Lord Jesus Christ crooked so that they will end up to be the teachers in their churches and the mediators between God and their congregations.

    Well, Jesus lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “I praise thee O Father that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and gave it to babes.”
    Do you think that the wise guys understand the Scriptures ?
    I don’t think so. I rather believe what the Lord Jesus has said.


    I think that no one can interpret the Scriptures accurately at any level who does not know God.
    I don’t mean, ‘know ABOUT God’, since everybody knows ABOUT God, but what I mean is to know God personally.

    Please tell me, John 10:30 did Jesus literally meant what He has said ?
    Or did He metaphorically meant that He and the Father are TWO ? :-)

    And do you interpret that ONE means really TWO ? or what ?
    What does ONE mean to you ? Intellectually, logically, metaphorically or whatever ?
    If you are a trinitarian, is the Lord Jesus Christ ONE of THREE ? or ONE with TWO others ?

    Tell me, on which level was Jesus speaking in John 10:30 ?
    And on which level do you interpret John 10:30 ?
    Anyone who claims to know the Scriptures or God, are the Father and the Son TWO or ONE ?

    Those questions are legitimate for anyone who claims to understand the Scripture in seven or more levels.

    As I have said many times, if you do not know the TRUE God (1 John 5:20 and Jere. 10:10), then it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to rightly divide the word of truth, no matter which level it is.
    (2 Timothy 2:15) “a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

    All Israel think that they understand the Scriptures at more than seven levels; but, can they ? really ?

    I don’t think so, otherwise they would NOT have crucified the Lord of glory Jesus Christ.

    Just like Israel, most church leaders claim to be able to interpret the Scriptures in the deepest levels without actually knowing God, just like the blind who leads the blind.

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  26. Keith,

    See, I feel when it says "his hands" and stuff that it is not literal. If that is the case then gorillas were made in his image too. When it says no one can snatch us out of his hand I believe that is metaphorical. Although I am not completely disregarding your idea. He may have "hands" but I don't think it is like ours.

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  27. Tim, When the Bible says image, I see likeness, not necessarily specifics parts, even though I do believe God's body is similar to ours, except for the frailties of the flesh. I also believe that his hand encompasses all of the Remnant. I also believe in the metaphorical hand interpretation. Just curious, why did you think God wouldn't or doesn't have a literal, non flesh body?

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  28. Paul, you are correct. There are multiple levels of understanding Gods Word, in the same way that there are multiple levels, at which God exists. Enlighten us as to the ones that God has revealed to you, that is not on this list.

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  29. Well my friend, you should have called this post, ‘The Seven Levels Of Unbelief’.

    It amazes me that not one of you believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    That is alarming and no wonder why all churches are in such a mess. They all have a form of godliness but with their heart they are faaaaaar from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    What is the point to be able to dissect the Scriptures into seven levels and NOT believing in the Lord Jesus Christ ?
    It all profits you nothing, or perhaps not much.

    The Gospel of salvation is, first, that you repent of your evil and wicked ways for believing in other gods, and then turn to the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart and believe ONLY in Him.
    And then you and your household shall be saved. Believe NOT and you shall be damned regardless what you believe.

    Well my friends, don’t intellectualize the truth. It is required from you have a simple belief in the Lord Jesus Christ alone and in NO other.
    Any other god is a false god, it is the god of this world which is the devil.

    And don’t delude yourselves by thinking that you believe in Jesus, even the demons believe in Jesus and they are certainly not saved.
    And if you think that a god called Yahweh saves people THROUGH a man called Jesus or Y’shua then you are twice deluded.

    OK. again, without repentance is NO salvation.
    And if you do NOT believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty ALONE, then you can NOT understand the Scriptures at any level.


    Just think for a moment.
    If you believe and debate whether God has hands or not, then plainly you don’t believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God.
    And neither do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ formed HIS image from the dust of the ground (Gen. 2:7).
    Well, tell me, what do you really believe ?
    All the talk about levels of Scriptural interpretation becomes foolish speculations.

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  30. Keith
    I am not saying he couldn't or that I know he doesn't. I agree with you that our flesh is definitely part of our sinful nature. But I think our flesh came before the sin. Anyway to answer your question, I think we were spiritual beings that God would form a physical body from the dust. Animals I feel were also sprung forth from the earth. So that would make them divine creatures as well. I feel there is a distinction and so God would not be like the animals. Plus Jesus was made lower, to me that means unlike the Father in looks, not essence of course.

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  31. Paul, I bet you feel pretty good about standing in condemnation of us all and judging us. However, my friend, you will not stand in judgment of me. I stand firm and securely in the blood of Christ.

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  32. Tim, when God created, in the beginning, creation was not what we see today. As a result of our stupidity, creation lost dimensionality, in the same way we did. Even today, dirt, trees and the rocks and all of creation desire and moan to return to that eternal glorious existence with God. So, to look at creation strictly in the way that you and I see them today, causes us to miss the fullness of their existence. The Bible clearly shows that God created both Solish and non-soulish creatures. Therefore, to say that we were the only ones created in his image could be completely missing the mark. Also, the Bible mentions a self awareness of creation, which I take literally, beyond the poetic and symbolic level. I don't think Y'shua was joking around, when he told the priest that if the crowds shut up, that the rocks would cry out. Therefore, I feel we and the rest of creation have a lot more in common with God the most think, including hands, feet, etc.

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  33. Paul, when we discuss or debate over the little things concerning God, it reveals that we have a desire to intimately know him. I hope and pray that one day you'll have that desire. Why don't you join in our conversation and get to know the little things of God. As you converse with us, maybe we will get to know each other better and reason together, concerning the things of God. One thing, I know that, if you are a child of God, we can agree on, is there is only one faith, one belief and one love through the Messiah. Together, let's strive to achieve that. Why don't you join us in that conversation and see where that leads? Plant the seeds that you believe need to be planted and let the Holy Spirit do his job.

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    1. that's funny cause that's exactly what I said in the last blog post and he found away to try and tear me down.

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  34. Is our eternal home physical? Pure honest question, not to disagree, just asking straight up.

    I don't think it is physical the way we know it. I don't think we are disagreeing that much. God may have hands but I don't think they are like ours.

    I believe God actually walked the earth and rustled the leaves and moved the wind. But I also think He chose to be able to do so.

    I kind of wonder why He chose to speak through a bush instead of human form and then he chose human form when he wrestled Jacob. So I know he uses our form but I don't see him being in our form or vice-versa. In the image to me does not mean EXACT likeness. But, that is my opinion. I do like your ideas.

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  35. Tim, Yes, I do believe that our eternal home will be physical, as described is Revelation 21. However, as John and the angel was able to teleport immeditiately to the mountain above the New Heaven and New Jerusalem, we will have a new dimensionality, which will allow us that type and more freedoms, showing that our physicality will be different than what it is now. As to the exact resemblance and make up, we'll have to wait and see.

    I also agree that "God actually walked the earth and rustled the leaves and moved the wind.", but that was in a reality, before the fall. If I am understanding the Bible correctly, we will to return to paradise lost, with free access to the "garden trees', including knowledge and life, and enjoying a new dimensionality.

    As for after the fall, I believe that communication methods, such as choosing to speak through a wind to Elijah or the Bush to Moses or an angel to wrestle with Jacob and finally through Y'shua to reconcile mankind unto himself, were kinds of Avatars. As you know, because of his sinless nature, God will not come into contact with sin. (In case, Paul is reading this, Yes, God can, but he won't, because it violates his sinless nature) Therefore, he required and still requires an avatar, or protective suit, as a way not to compromise his nature, in his goings to and fro, from his reality to ours.

    In addition, I think that it really hurts him, emotionally, not to able to commune with man. That's why I believe that we are close to the end, for it's only been a week for him, but 7000 years for us. At the end of the 7000 years, it will mark the beginning of the last thousand years, the millennium, beginning of the last 1000 years, of the prophesied 8000 year, ushering in the New Heaven and New Earth. Seven signifies completion, with eight signifying a new beginning.

    Finally, I always thought that the real Bible story would be an excellent movie, if done according to what the Bible says. :-)

    By the way, I like your ideas also, I always enjoyed worshipping and studying with you.

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  36. Anonymous:
    So you are standing firm and securely in the blood of Christ, that sounds pretty good, but just not good enough.
    Even those who crucified the Lord Jesus Christ stood in the blood as they put a spear through His heart.

    Well, it didn’t help them much, did it ?
    And how many people are in hell who were standing securely in the blood of Christ ?

    The Lord Jesus made it very clear, unless your righteousness does not surpass those of all the religious people you will perish likewise (Luke 13:3-5).

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  37. Yes Keith, I have been reading all the comments of your blog.
    That is because I’m interested what people believe and in whom they believe.

    You said, “that we have a desire to intimately know him. I hope and pray that one day you'll have that desire.”

    Yes I know that you do, that is because you don’t know Him, but that is NOT so with me.

    I personally know know Him, He is my Father and I am His representative.
    I do NOT engage in speculations. Anyone who knows Him does NOT speculate or philosophises about Him, but represents Him.
    There is a big difference in whom you believe and what you believe than in whom I believe and represent.

    You represent a god you do NOT know and you call him sometimes Yahweh, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, Jehovah, etc. and even sometimes you call him by four letters YHWH which nobody can pronounce, or you say that he’s got many of names.
    And when that ignorance has been exposed, you say that Jesus, manly “Y’shua” is also God.

    Can you see, I can NOT debate from any other premise than from the premise that Jesus Christ is LORD.
    By, ‘LORD’ I mean the LORD God the Almighty, and not a little lord, or one of the lords.
    And neither can I add new speculations to already existing speculations.

    I am a representor of the TRUTH (John 14:6), which is Jesus Christ, and yes, I know everything about the truth and He has set me free from all that religious baloney and foolish speculation which profit you nothing.

    As I have said many times and I do not lie, if you want to know anything about the true God and His creation, you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
    If you continually refuse to believe in Him and add someone else to your god-economy, you will never know anything about His marvelous creation and you will walk in darkness just like the rest of the world.
    Speculation is NOT revelation knowledge.

    And don’t you believe what the Prophet Amos has said, (Amos 3:3) “Can two walk together, unless they are in agreement ?”

    Translated into English; how can you know something about someone you do not know ?
    I claim that the Lord Jesus Christ is my Father who is in heaven and you claim to have another father. How then can we walk together ?

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  38. paul I'm beginning to love reading your comments, I wish I could here them in your Australian accent getting all heated. I would seriously get some popcorn and sit down just to listen to the same thing over and over cause that's what your comments are. I'm no longer bothered by it I actually miss it when I don't hear your repeating rhetoric. Keep on representing brother you doing a good job, then again the moment one would follow you and say I believe you would condemn them and tell them they don't!

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  39. Hi Brandon, I wish that you would believe my comments. I do NOT have a new story, the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ has NOT changed it is still the same as 2000 years ago, and it still has the power to save all those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I do not speak in order to tickle your ears, but so that you might be saved.
    The Gospel which I preach is the true Gospel and any other gospel is a false gospel (2 Cor. 11:3-4).
    If you believe the false gospels you will perish and choke on your popcorn.

    I did NOT ask you to follow me, I have asked you to follow the Lord Jesus Christ, the one which I represent and NOT the one which Keith represents or the one which you believe in.

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  40. Paul, that is your choice to act that way. You choose to control your emotions or let your emotions control you. In the meantime, if you can, I would like to know the higher levels of scriptural interpretation, that you referenced earlier.

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  41. Paul,

    2 Corinthians ch. 11 v. 4 states:-

    'For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!'

    I feel it is very sad (and I genuinely mean that) that someone has done this to you also.

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  42. Did anyone else miss Paul's Freudian slip?

    He said,"I personally no know him."

    That's right! You no know him.

    As for not speculating, why don't you enlighten us, oh perceptive one, as to the subject of this post?

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    1. I noticed the spelling error and thought 'God speaks in mysterious ways.'

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    2. That's s good one, Brenda!

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    3. LOL I love how God "Mysteriously" interjects. He will always set the record straight. :-)

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  43. Keith,
    I guess that goes with another post you had about Eden being spiritual, and still on this earth. I like that thought. I just don't know if that I can accept that as the whole story. It does fit together. I just see the creation as being one event. A whole physical world created out of nothing. God of course able to intervene and chooses to do so. Our spirits made in His image but using the earth to form our bodies. I do think at times this is why there are two creation accounts. Our first created being was spirit but then formed out of the ground later. I just don't know. But back to my point, the whole earth is physical. The universe has its laws in place. Time, light, space and matter all created at once and all of it physical. I can't see our final home being like this. I believe the new heavens and new earth are physical but are part of the 1000 year reign as well. And then after we see what Paradise was supposed to be like and all of its joy and beauty we get to see something even better with the Father. That is what makes God so great. He gives us something and then we get something even better.

    So, I just can't see Him having the same form as us, maybe similar to us but not like us.

    References to His hands and feet and stuff to me is the metaphorical interpretation.

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  44. Hey Tim, I used to end coversations, like this, with, "That's alright. God and I will explain it to you on the way up." But now, I just enjoy exploring what the scriptures say and what we get out of it and the fact that you and I are looking forward to the eternity spent with God. In the end, he'll explain it to us, on the way up. The beautiful thing, about it, is that I firmly believe that you and I will enjoy the ride and final destination, regardless of the outcome. Praise God!

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  45. No Keith, that was NOT my choice.
    Do you really think that I would choose to put my head on the chopping block (so to speak) by my own choice ?

    I don’t think so my friend ! I’ve got better things to do.
    It was the Lord Jesus Christ who has called me to be His ambassador. Even though I was arguing with Him, that I was not skilled and good enough to be His ambassador.
    He said to me that He would equip me to preach His Gospel and no one shall stand before me.
    I said, if I do that, then they will call me a troublemaker, and He said, ‘don’t worry if they call you a troublemaker, for they first called Me a troublemaker’. Then I said that they would call me a heretic, and He said, ‘don't worry if they call you a heretic, for they first called Me a heretic’. Then I said that they would gnash their teeth at me, and He said, ‘don't worry if they gnash their teeth at you, for they first gnashed their teeth at Me.
    Then I said, well Lord Jesus, they will not listen and believe it anyway, and then the Lord Jesus said to me, ‘in that you greatly err, for My people will hear my voice and will heed to My call’.

    After that, I said to the Lord Jesus that I will go and preach His Gospel in season and out of season, convenient or not convenient, on the highways and on the byways, on blogs and wherever they are willing to listen.

    And so far no one was willing eat popcorn while I am preaching the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, for I do not preach the Gospel in mere words but in power and demonstration of the Spirit.

    And please tell me, with which god are you going to spend eternity ?

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  46. Hi Brenda, You said, “I feel it is very sad (and I genuinely mean that) that someone has done this to you also.”

    What exactly do you feel that someone has done to me ?


    I do NOT believe in the ‘Jesus’ that you preach.
    My ‘Jesus’ is my Father who is in heaven and your ‘Jesus’ is a mere man who is used by a god you call Yahweh.

    I did NOT receive the spirit that you have received.
    For the Spirit that I have received calls the Lord Jesus Christ ‘LORD’ (1 Cor. 12:3) meaning “GOD".

    And neither do I preach the same gospel as you preach.
    The Gospel which I preach is the Lord Jesus Christ portrayed in everything.

    Well Brenda, I think that you should be sad for yourself, for someone has preached to you a different gospel which is really a false gospel and you bear this beautifully (2 Cor. 11:4).

    “For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent Apostles. But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge.”

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  47. Anonymous, well, that is a slip of the fingers. Perhaps I’m rushing to quick over the keyboard.

    I did see it, but it was too late, after all you should know what I mean. A wrong word or a spelling mistake does not nullify the need for you to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    And yes, it is my God, the Lord Jesus Christ who will set the record straight, and not your false gods :-)

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  48. Well my friends, I know that you FEEL that I am against you, but your feelings are deceptive.
    You supposed believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT in your feelings.
    The churches are full of people who feel, but they don’t judge themselves rightly, and for that reason they perish with a Bible in their hands.

    Don’t you think that it is about time for all of you to repent from believing in your false gods ?

    Only talking about a god does not produce your salvation.

    Just think about, there you supposed to be married to the Lord God the Almighty Jesus Christ of Nazareth and be called His Bride, the Bride of Christ and then you turn to you other lovers (gods).

    By any natural man you would be called a harlot bride, and unacceptable to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    What do you think He will do with such a harlot bride ?
    Would you like me to read it for you from the book of revelation ?

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  49. Paul,
    the Jesus that I preach is the One Who has been GIVEN all authority:-

    'Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,…'
    Matthew ch. 28 vs. 18, 19

    The One Who is the first of many BRETHREN:-
    'And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.'
    Romans ch. 8 vs. 28, 29.

    The One Who has been given all authority by God the Father:-

    'The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For 'God has put everything under His feet.' Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.…'
    1 Corinthians 15 26-28

    Very plainly written Paul.

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  50. Keith,
    Well sure thing!

    Not trying to pat ourselves but most people don't and will never care about these things. The relationship we have with Jesus is, for lack of better words or attitude, probably closer due to at least trying to understand things like this. Some will never even want to know, some only study the basics, some won't go this far because they're stuck on certain topics and ideas. God wants us to go deeper into his word. That is of course how our faith grows. And knowing how He is talking to us by a certain method helps us. Same in life with other people. We have to know how they are saying things or we don't get it. Such as are they being sarcastic or not, or are they being serious or they just using examples to explain things. Knowing about Jesus' attitude while he was speaking opens up the meaning so much more.

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  51. Well Brenda, If it is so plainly written, then why don’t you believe in Him ?
    Why then do you believe in THEM, in the gods, instead in Him ?
    A little leaven has leavened the whole lump and that’s the reason you can NOT understand those passages and any other passages of the Scriptures.


    I don’t know how else to say it to you, but you do NOT understand the Scriptures at all. In fact it is impossible for you to understand the Scriptures in your present state.

    OK, I will tell you the only way which might be possible for you to understand the Scripture.
    The first step is to repent ! yes Brenda, I know that you have a problem with that step, but there is NO other way around. I do not lie Brenda.
    By repent, I mean that you go down on your knees and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ so that He might forgive you of your sins against Him.
    Use your own words, but you need to be sincere, for the Lord my God can see right through you and knows the innermost thought of your heart. Don’t play mind games or excuse yourself to Him, and mean what you say.

    After you have repented, then ask the Lord Jesus Christ whether He would be willing to open your mind so that you can understand the Scriptures.

    You see Brenda, all of us who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ had to come to Him exactly the same way, there is NO other way.
    I also had to ask my Lord, to open my mind to understand the Scriptures just as it says in Luke 24:45 “Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.”

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  52. Yes, Paul, it is your choice on how you handle yourself. A while back, you had to notice that I no longer treat you antagonistically. I saw that I was going down the same rabbit hole, as you are now. An old English says, "You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar." I would hope that you will change, because, even if you state any kind of truth, no one will listen, due to your antagonistic presentation. If you honestly look at your delivery, you have to agree that Jesus would not act nor would want you to act that way.

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  53. Paul, leaven is something that is added to ingredients to inflate bread, and that is what you do to the bread of Heaven (the Word of God) - you add to it. Eat only the daily bread which is unleavened as you travel through your wilderness and you will eventually reach the promised land.

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  54. Keith, I’m old enough to know how to handle myself.
    The Lord Jesus Christ has not called me to be the nice guy who lies with his lips to make everyone feel god.

    Honey attracts flies but the Gospel saves everyone who believes in Him.

    And how can you say that I am in a rabbit hole. No man who speaks in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks from a rabbit hole (1 Peter 4:11).
    You are greatly mistaken my friend.

    The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is antagonistic to all those who perish (1 Cor. 1:18, and 1 Peter 2:7-8).

    And yes, the Lord Jesus speaks like me, because I have learned my speech from Him.

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  55. I did't meant god, I meant good :-)

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  56. Yes Brenda, I know what leaven is, but I was not talking about natural leaven. I was talking about the false teachings which has entered into a man's soul.

    You cannot travel through the wilderness and eventually reach the promised land.
    That’s a fallacy Brenda.

    Just look at Israel, they ALL perished in the wilderness except Joshua and Caleb, and not even Moses entered into the promised land.

    The reason for that is, that the old man cannot enter in, just as Jesus has said, that a man must be born again. And if he is not born again he cannot enter in or see it (John 3:3+5), he will die in the wilderness.
    Can you see, all those who are in the promised land were born into it. They could NOT enter in by their own will or their good deeds etc.

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  57. That is what I am talking about Paul, spiritually going through the wilderness towards the promised land through the Holy Spirit's leading.

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  58. No Brenda, a man can NOT go through a spiritual wilderness, there is no such thing as a spiritual wilderness.
    There is only a natural wilderness, and only natural Israel walked through that wilderness.

    But spiritual Israel are walking with JESUS in the light and NOT in the wilderness but in the promised land, and we are NOT tossed around with every wind of doctrine, we know the truth and the truth has set us free.

    Can you see, that wrong assumption or premise is the ‘leaven’ I was talking about, and because of that assumption, you end up in wrong conclusions, which amounts to a deception or a false doctrine.

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  59. We shall agree to disagree and leave it there Paul, I see no point in continuing any conversation with you any more as all you want to do is argue with everyone.

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  60. Paul,

    I am not going to deep detail because I know how your mind works but one thing you said here needs attention. You saying we are "NOT tossed around with every wind of doctrine". You didn't say our names but we know you're talking about us here on this blog.

    Here is what you're missing: this topic is not about doctrine, it's about an opinion on how to see the Bible. Keith, I, and the rest here all said there are things that could be combined and things that could be added, not to scripture but as a tool of reading scripture.

    We need to know if Jesus was talking about earthly things, symbolic things, or literal things. And He did all of them. Some to tell true stories, some to she truth on to life stories, and some to use as metaphors.

    Understanding these things helps us know God better. There is no doctrine in this topical thread. So, why bring it up? You have your blog. We know where it is. If there is a topic that deals with your beliefs then go ahead and write about it, but we just want to discuss things that help us grow closer. Can you have a conversation with us? Can you give an opinion without the pattern you always bring with you.

    We know your ideas, saying them 5000 times is not going to change us, for more than just one reason. We wanted to know you. We wanted to hear and listen to you. But you don't let us. You keep clanging cymbals when you should be blowing the shofar. This is why we keep saying we don't want to talk to you. All we wanted to do here was hear others and their ideas so that we can hear God perhaps through them and get to know others who know Jesus and are cleansed by His blood and are saved by Grace.

    Can you do that?

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  61. Tim, you said, “We know your ideas, saying them 5000 times is not going to change us”
    And “Understanding these things helps us know God better.”
    “God wants us to go deeper into his word.”
    “we get to see something even better with the Father. That is what makes God so great.”


    OK. Tim, that makes it 5000 and 1 times. Of WHICH God are you talking about ?
    Are you talking about Buddha, Jehovah, Yahweh or Allah or WHO ?

    The Jehovah Witnesses are a lot better than you, at least with them I know which god they are talking about because they call him by his name Jehovah.

    How can we have a conversation if I don't know of which god you are talking about ?

    Before you can know anything about the ONLY TRUE God, you first need to know my God the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Remember, I have said many times that any other god is the god of this world, the devil (2 Cor. 4:4).
    So, it doesn’t matter what you call him, if it is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ, it is the devil.

    How can you know God if you don’t believe that the God of the Bible is the Lord Jesus Christ ?

    And no, there is NOT one god called the Father and another god called the Son. And neither is there one god called the Father who creates everything THROUGH someone who is called the Son.
    That is exactly the ERROR of Brenda, Keith and most christians today.

    And WHO is that Father you are talking about ?

    Look Tim, that bad smell does not go away, till you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    And if you don’t believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only God (Jude 1:25), you will die in your sins (John 8:24).
    Would you like me to tell you what that means ?

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  62. I have answered you 5001 times so I guess your answer would be no.

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  63. Tim, remember (Amos 3:3) “Can two walk together, unless they are in agreement ?”

    You and I are talking about two different G-gods.
    And different Bibles (Scripture).
    You don’t believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God alone and neither do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God alone.

    All of you can walk together because all of you are in agreement, but I am certainly NOT in agreement with anyone of you.
    That is exactly the reason why we have so many denomination in the world.
    Everyone believes whatever they like to believe, and everyone is their own authority.
    They don’t bow to the Lord Jesus but to their own god and to every flavor of the day.

    My walk is simple. If it is NOT the Lord Jesus, then it is a false god, if it is NOT the Bible, then it is NOT the Word of God, and to speculate on anything else is error.

    Therefore, when you quote a passage from the Bible, or have an opinion concerning God, you start with a different presupposition and walk not in agreement with me.

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  64. That's not what I asked you. Can you give your insight to other topics?

    You've answered that as a no. So I guess why pursue any kind of friendship. I guess you have no other friends since they don't think like you.

    All I wanted at first was just to hear your ideas but you only have one.

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  65. Like you I had some hope. I understand about being bold and steadfast but he is so unChrist like in his approach it angers me and makes me lose that hope every time.

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