What did Y'shua/Jesus mean when he said that? Most scholars believe that the end of days will resemble the days of Noah in both attitude and activity. It doesn't take much to see that our world resembles the society at the time of Noah.
Genesis 6:5 tells us that the people on the earth were very wicked and all the imagination of their hearts were always of evil only and profaned the name of the Lord. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see, that with every passing day the world becomes more and more evil and everything of God is ridiculed.
However, there was one thing that was happening at the time of Noah that hasn't happened yet today. That is the fallen angels meeting with humans to create a hybrid..... or have they?
There are some scholars and researchers that believe todays extra terrestrial presence are indeed the fallen angels attempting to defile humanity. For me, the verdict is still out, but we should not forget the possibility of it happening again.
Hi Keith. If you don’t like my comment just delete them and bar me from commenting.
ReplyDeleteOK, apart from what the Lord Jesus has said, I don’t agree with you, the rest is just mens speculations.
And because of Genesis 6:5 people believe and teach that there has to be a GREAT TRIBULATION before the end of the world.
But Jesus said that they were EATING and DRINKING. To me that sounds just like a normal day.
And do you really think that there will be some UFOs, extraterrestrial beings (fallen angels) turning up and sit around the table in a meeting to create some kind of hybrids ?
Jesus didn’t say that, He said that they were EATING and DRINKING; nothing more, just like every day normal activities.
Well, it would be nice to give us some Scriptures to support your story.
In the days of Noah, there was no difference, they lived just like we live, they were not worse than we are. They were not more GODLESS than we are.
Noah preached the same Gospel as I preach. And did they repented when Noah preached ? so then, what do you think, will they repent when I preach Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ ?
Hi Paul,
Deletewhere you say to Keith 'If you don’t like my comment just delete them and bar me from commenting.' it appears that this is what you have done regarding my comments on your blog.
Just to say - I really don't mind that Paul, but I believe it would have been much better if you had said simply that you do not like my comments and I would have stopped leaving comments on your blog.
Hi Brenda, no I did not delete any of your comments, to the contrary, I like your comments, I have been telling you that many times in the past.
DeleteI welcome anyone's comments whether they agree with me or not, makes no difference to me.
I might not answer to a comment, but I never delete any comments. I blog and comment in order to stir and challenge everyone who claims to believe in God.
I do NOT oppose those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is, because I am in agreement with everyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps, there might be something wrong with your computer ? or you might thought that you have posted the comment and hit the wrong key ?
I have done that myself at times :-)
My sincere apologies Paul. We have been on holiday with my son and his family and I came over to your blog on my smartphone. It was done from Ireland so it could have been either the fact that I was in a different place or my lack of knowledge with technology. :-)
DeleteHi Paul, First of all, as long as you don't use profanity, you are always welcome here. You are always welcome to agree or disagree.
ReplyDeleteAs for speculation, that is what the post presents itself as. With questions
like,
"What did Y'shua/Jesus mean when he said that?"
and
"... or have they?"
It is speculation, because neither you or I can say what Y'shua meant. It was deliberately presented that way. If you look at all of the previous and following verses, he clearly indicates that they are signs, that will precede his second coming.
As for a Great Tribulation, Y'shua, in Matthew 24:21 clearly says, "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." I don't think that's ambiguous at all. Do you?
As for the UFO's, I did say that some scholars and researchers believe this. As for me, the verdict is still out. Could Satan be using the UFO phenomena as a diversion? I don't put anything past him.
As for it being true, all you have to do is read Genesis 6, Matthew 24 and Jude. The fallen ones did this during the time of Noah. To say that it wouldn't or couldn't happen, is setting ourselves up to be possibly blindsided.
As for our generation or Noah's generation being the same and not worse, that sounds a lot like Peter's warning in 2 Peter 3:3-5.
Y'shua said that the end generation would see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place. This is clearly a generation that will winess the corruption of the Temple of God. That Temple will either be a physical Temple, built by the Jews, or the Temple of the Holy Spirit, which is the heart of the believer. Either way, it is clearly worse than the time of Noah. I honestly believe it will be both.
Your thoughts?
Keith, profane is irreverent and blasphemous, and I am neither.
DeleteI do not proclaim or preach a god who is NOT God at all. I make it very clear that ONLY the Lord Jesus Christ is God Jude 1:25, and beside the Lord Jesus Christ is NO other God (Isaiah 45:22).
Any other god is a false god !
Either Jesus Christ is God or BAAL is God. No Keith, there is no one else, ether Jesus or the devil.
The Prophet Isaiah says to you Keith and to all who read this comment, “How long will you ‘Keith’ hesitate between two opinions ? If the Lord ‘Jesus Christ of Nazareth’ is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” (! Kings 18:21)
Tell me Keith, was Isaiah profane, irreverent or blasphemous to the god of this world Baal ? (1 Kings chapter 18)
Well, Isaiah is just like me :-) or perhaps should I have said that the Spirit which is in me is the same Spirit which is in our brother Isaiah.
Keith, it is time for you to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in Him ONLY, and forsake any other god, whether you call that other god Jehovah, Yahweh or Baal makes absolutely no difference. If it is NOT Jesus Christ, then it is Baal.
I am not a featurist, meaning, that I do not think or believe that all the events in the Scriptures,like Matthew 24, Revelation or Daniel etc. are events which will happen in a future time just prior to the end of time. No to the contrary, they happen NOW and are going to happen to mankind of every generation.
I believe that the WHOLE Bible (the Scriptures) is written so that we can understand everything, but only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but those who believe in another god will NOT understand the Scriptures, all they can do is speculate.
Previously I have said, that when you err on the doctrine of God, then all your posts are polluted with assumptions and also, everything else you say.
If a mathematician does not believe that one plus one equals two, then all his math is wrong and you cannot rely on his testimony.
Hi Brenda, I agree with you that only open lines of communication will allow us to arrive at the truth.
ReplyDeleteI see no need for Nephilim anymore. The seed of Eve has come and the seed does not need to be tampered with. Now all the "UFO" sightings may be an elaborate plan by satan of sending false signs and wonders in the sky. The Russian cosmonauts even said one time they saw "winged creatures" while on the Soyuz. I do not believe in extra terrestrials. There is no need for them and if they are life forms that are sentient then did Jesus die for them? And if so then did all of their other people have access to this salvation? I don't see it. It would also make mankind NOT the most important creation.
ReplyDeleteI am glad to hear that you are not claiming preterism through Matthew 24.
Tim, I am in agreement with you on most of what you said. However, where in the Bible does it say that humanity is the most important creation?
ReplyDeleteAlso, as for preterism, you know me better than that. There isn't any scriptural support for it. The only thing we know for sure is that the rapture will occur pre-wrath. All else is pretty much speculation. :-) LOL
Even the assumption that there will be a rapture, pre, mid or post tribulation is also a speculation somewhere in the future and it has never profit anyone throughout the centuries.
ReplyDeleteIt only tickles their ears.
Paul, What is meant by the phrase, "There will be..."? If I said to you that there will be something happening at a time that you or I don't know the time or Day, what would that mean?
ReplyDeleteJust in case Paul hasn't read this reply I left to his answer to me regarding deleting my comment, I thought I would leave it here where he is more likely to read it.
ReplyDeleteMy sincere apologies Paul. We have been on holiday with my son and his family and I came over to your blog on my smartphone. It was done from Ireland so it could have been either the fact that I was in a different place or my lack of knowledge with technology. :-)'
Yes Brenda, I have read your comment and you don't need to apologies to me.
DeleteI never, or rarely apologies to anyone and I don't expect anyone to apologies to me either.
I think that we have more important things to do than to apologies :-)
That's ok Paul, we are all different. If I find that I have made a mistake regarding what a person has done then I automatically apologise to the person involved.
DeleteThe blockage from your blog has gone now so something was obviously going on. - Solved now.
Hi Brenda, I have no problems using my blog to convey questions or issues within our family. I hope you are doing well, today.
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeletethank you, I have no problem with that on my blog either. I just thought it would be better to answer Paul on your blog as the issue of deleting comments was brought up here by Paul.
I always feel that interaction and conversation on blogs is as if we were all in the same room talking to one another.
Yes, I am well thank you. I have just been to the church gathering that the Lord is having me go to at the moment and have had a good time. People are allowed there to bring and share what they feel the Lord is giving them to share and that is good because that is how the church is supposed to operate (1 Corinthians ch. 14 v. 26.)
My husband and I have had a wonderful holiday in N.Ireland with our son and his family. I loved the things that happened there regarding the Lord and also my experiences on the journey.
Our son would like us to live there. Who knows - if it is the Lord's will then it shall happen.
I shall have to make time to read your post more and maybe join in the conversation. I have been so busy the last couple of days that I have not had as much time to spend on the blog as I want to. Being in the Lord is very exciting and I love interacting with brothers and sisters in the Lord too. Hope you are well too.
God bless you and your family.
Hi Brenda, I totally agree with you in the correlation between the blog in church and family and relating issues, as if we are in the same room.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear that you had a great holiday with your family in Ireland. I've been to most nations within Europe, but for some reason, I have not made it to Great Britain. One day, I hope to see my sister Brenda, face-to-face, before the rapture.
As always, your comments on the blog subject are welcomed and enlightenning.
As interacting with other within the remnant of God and even outside is very enjoyable.
My family and I are doing fine. Thank you for asking. I'm just really busy. It's that time of the year.
You have certainly been around the world Keith, as we have. We have lived in Australia, having been there three times, and have mostly travelled by sea if we could so that we could visit many places through port stops.
DeleteIf we never meet face to face on this earth it does not matter Keith because 'as a man thinks so he is' and I believe both you and I are honest with one another, seeing one another as we really are, when we interact on the blog regarding our thoughts brought into our discussions:-)
I am so with you, on that. :-) God Bless You and Your Family.
Delete
DeleteBrendaJune 14, 2017 at 4:35 AM
I do believe though that one day we shall meet wherever that might be because we who are born of God's Spirit are brothers and sisters in Christ, and I look foreword to that meeting also my brother
Paul, I'm a little confused. As I read all the comments here on this blog, I failed to find one comment or person claiming a God other than the God that dwells within Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous, if the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty as I have said; do you think that there is another God that dwells within the Lord Jesus Christ ?
ReplyDeleteAnd... hijacked.
ReplyDelete:-) LOL
DeleteThe God that dwelt within the Lord Jesus Christ while He was on earth was God Almighty, God the Father - Who is Spirit not flesh. Although Jesus was born in the flesh in a woman's womb there was no human insemination involved for He was born of the Spirit.
ReplyDeleteThat is how 2 Corinthians 5 v. 21 makes perfect sense to those who have become children of God by being born of the Spirit of God and who now have become the body of Christ on earth (the church) and have the mind of Christ.
'For our sake He made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.'
The 'sin' is in the flesh.
I agree, Brenda. Keep putting the Word out and let the Spirit move in the heart.
DeleteAnonymous, You are correct. There isn't. Paul needs to evangelize, in his own way. Bless His Heart. :-)
ReplyDeleteBrenda, you said, "The God that dwelt in the Lord Jesus Christ while He was on earth was God Almighty, God the Father".
ReplyDeleteWhat are you saying Brenda, one God the Father is dwelling in another God called the Son ?
That is trinitarian theology, which I oppose at any time.
Trinitarian think that God is a three persons or entities. They throw all of those three persons into one bucket and call the bucket 'God'. Well, that's trinitarian theology, and that is what Anonymous believes.
But you Brenda, you believe that Yahweh is God (the Father) and He sent one of his sons (a man) Jesus to go to the cross and die for us.
Well, that’s the same as trinitarian theology with a slight change to make it believable. We had a debate about that a while ago.
But the truth is a lot different.
It is JESUS Christ alone who holds the TITLES Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and beside the Lord Jesus Christ is NO OTHER who is called Father, or Holy Spirit.
It is JESUS Christ alone who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the God who created the heavens and the earth and everything in it.
It is Jesus Christ the LORD who spoke through the mouth of His Prophets, saying that, at the appropriate time He will cause Himself to be born into His own creation through a virgin and redeeming His children on the cross from the power of Satan.
Therefore it was GOD who went to the cross, and it was GOD who died for sins, and NOT some other person or entity as it is preached today.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteyou should not try to indoctrinate people with the Puritan belief you are trained by. I accept no doctrines of man, and belong to no denominational churches. God the Father Who is Spirit has made Jesus both Lord and Christ. Jesus is my Lord, the One mediator between man and God. The church that I am part of is the body of Christ (the anointed One) on earth, and I preach only Christ crucified to unbelievers (which I have been called to do through the gift that was given to me.
I judge no outsider, only God is their judge, and that Word written is my judge - as it is yours Paul.
As Jesus said 'It is written'.
What was the topic again? Oh yeah...the end times is like Noah. Agreed. People will be so corrupted that good will seem evil and evil will seem good. In the US we can see that everyday in our politics alone. Lies, scandals, and all are "explained away". People claim rights over what is right. We unify and protest the dumbest of things and take out all religious freedom around every corner. If I was God I wouldn't wait any longer.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry Keith,
ReplyDeleteTim is right. I must stop being drawn into the same conversations with Paul on your blog as I do not get time to comment on what you have written in your post. Will look up the 'fallen angels' bit in the Bible and get back to comment probably.
No apologies necessary, Brenda. We all want to get the truth out.
DeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI have always believed (as there is no time to God and the scriptures are discerned spiritually) that the sons of God mixing with the daughters of man represents in these times the born again believers being unequally yoked with unbelievers, which we are instructed not to do.
Just to add Keith, this is what I believe is happening in the church today, that some believers have allowed the traditions of man to come in and make void the Word of God, and I think these can be classed as 'the fallen angels' as I believe the word 'angel' means 'messenger', which we are.
ReplyDeleteYes Tim, I give you an amen to that.
ReplyDeleteBut remember, it is my God the Lord Jesus Christ who arouses the wicket who are more zealous for their god and bring the sword against the western world for our unbelief.
It is the Lord who passes the cup of His wrath among the nations, and all the nations will drink from it who have fallen away from the Lord Jesus Christ to other gods, like Jehovah, Yahweh and Allah etc.
Perhaps just like in the days of Noah :-)
Oh, by the way, I'm glad that you are not God:-)
In the days of Noah, where was the Lord Jesus Christ ?
ReplyDeleteRemember, He is the first and the last (Rev. 2:8).
Or, do you think that there was another one there who was also the first ?
Was the Lord Jesus Christ hiding behind another god called Yahweh ?
Or did He get instructions from another god called Yahweh to destroy the earth with water ?
Remember, nothing came into being apart from Him (John 1:3).
Genesis 7:1, who was that who said to Noah to enter the ark ?
ReplyDeleteWas that the Lord Jesus Christ or was that the Lord Yahweh ?
Keith I never answered your question. The words "most important" may not be in the Bible but we know that is not thee criteria for making something real. Elohim's creation was "good" until mankind was made and that was "very good". I can assume from that we were higher than the rest of creation. Jesus came to did for us not horses or trees, that tells me we are more important. Jesus said consider the lillies and birds and how they are dressed beautifully and don't have to worry (short version) how much more will He clothe us. It all adds up to mankind being the greatest if creation. After we were created God rested, nothing else was created. We will judge the angels. How could there be something else out there if it looks like Jesus only died for us? Now I agree that all the activities we see in space is demonic and there deceiving us.
ReplyDeleteTypos aside I think I still made sense.
ReplyDeleteI will never critique grammar. :-)
DeleteWell said, Brenda!
ReplyDeleteHi Paul, You are always welcomed to express yourself here but, as Brenda so eloquently stated, the Word of God testifies against your doctrine, but will always welcome you.
ReplyDeleteBrenda, as far as what the fallen ones represent, I agree with you. However don't you not think that we need to have all this in mind as God may have a literal fulfillment in store for the end times. I honestly don't know. But if we keep our minds open to the truth, it will not catch us by surprise.
ReplyDeleteTim, and so the world continues. As I mentioned in my comment to Brenda, I agree with both of you as to what the end of days or the days of Noah will be. However, don't you think that we must always put out everything the word of God says so it does not catch us by surprise.
ReplyDeleteTim, For the most part, I agree with you. But, assuming that we are the greatest because Y'shua/Jesus died for us is exactly that, an assumption. Redemption is all about bringing the ones who suck back into the fold. That's you and me and the rest of humanity. You never hear about any of the other parts of creation sinning and falling short of the glory of God. The rest of creation is groaning for our reconciliation to be complete. As a matter of fact, Y'shua/Jesus told us that all of creation is crying out in worship. If we ceased praising, we would hear them. Even though I agree with you that the UFO phenomenon is demonic, haven't you ever wondered why God use the vacuum of space to isolate us here on earth from the rest of the universe? Let me finish with that I totally agree with you that we are very very very special to God, that he went to such great lengths to reconcile us back to him. We are special in his eyes, but to say that we are the most important, I don't know. I hope you are correct. Right now, with tears in my eyes, I feel like a major disappointment to him. Shalom, my brother.
ReplyDeletePaul, There are some truth hiding in your comments. Keep reading the Word of God and the Spirit of God will lead you into all truth. Keep your yearning for the truth and God will give it to you, eventually. You need to open your heart up to what the word actually says, but that will come in time. We all go through growing pains. I recommend you testing your doctrine against the whole counsel of God. When you do that, you can fine-tune the truth within your doctrine and purge out the lies. Remember God does love you aunt is yearning for you to come closer to him. Please note that we are in dedicated to your learning and advancement in the word. Remember, he who has ears, let him hear what the Spirit is saying.
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I am not sure how to answer your last question to me as, after reading all other comments it appears that we all think differently :-) You know what I believe regarding 'creation' as I have written in my post 'Let us make man in our image. Will probably get back to answer after I have re-read a few things.
Good discussion though!
ReplyDeleteJust to add Keith:-
I do believe that the 'sons of God' mixing with the 'daughters of man' is literal for today as that Word is the same yesterday, today and forever.
ReplyDeleteKeith,
Why were we created?
Are you saying animals and the world had a way of sinning?
Do animals and the earth have free will?
When it says we were made in HIS image, all assumptions are off. We are the righteousness of God. OUR bodies are a temple. We will have crowns, we have been made kings. No other part of creation can say that. Yes, if we do not praise Him then the rest of creation would. We have first choice. Everything adds up to how we are greatest of His creation. Now acting the greatest is different.
He may have created a vacuum but we are traveling into that vacuum. It didn't stop us only early man.
The one thing it looks like we may be disagreeing on (and it's not that big of a deal) is who are the sons of God scripture is talking about. We all agree the end times will be bad, 2 Timothy 3:2 explains it all.
ReplyDeleteBut I do not see any proof of the sons of God in my view being around today. Are these a sign of the "times of Noah"? Yes, they are mentioned in Genesis 6 but how long had the been around before the flood? We don't know. It took Noah 100 years to build the Ark. I am inferring that they had been around then for at least 100 years. So are they a sign of Noah or just part of history? I feel more part of history because they were here after the flood too. Goliath perhaps is one. They were men of power, warriors, giants. Some (including me a little) feel that this is where the myths of gods and goddesses came from. I feel they were seeds of demonic angels sent by satan trying to disrupt the seed of "the woman" (Eve---Jesus) of happening. Because if the seed of man was distorted by satan then how could reconciliation of a perfect human happen?
Satan failed each time he tried to destroy the seed. But since the seed has already been here there is no need for these men. I do not see them coming back, it would serve no purpose.
Keith, have you read Chuck Missler?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteTim and Brenda, We're not disagreeing. I'm challenging and posing questions that mainstream Christianity ignores. I'm a firm believer that the today's false doctrines will result in many falling victim to "The Lie".
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem in the church today is that we are being myopically taught lessons that are not rooted in the scriptures.
As for this post, Matthew 24:37 says that the time concerning the second coming will be exactly like the days of Noah. The word used is the Greek word, "hosper", which means "exactly like", instead of "toioutos", which means "similar", giving you the meaning that you are implying. If you believe in the literal interpretation of God's Word, then how would interpret it?
Tim, Are you wanting to borrow my Chuck Missler tapes?
ReplyDeleteTim, As for we being the most important, I do agree that we are the apple of God's eye. However, I'm not extending that beyond earth, because the scriptures don't say it.
ReplyDeleteKeith, You said, 'that we are the apple of God’s eye'.
ReplyDeleteWell, that is a big mouth full my friend.
Tell me, the apple in which God’s eye ?
Perhaps those of John 8:44 believed that, but surely the creator of heaven and earth did not believe that.
And I wonder whether Judas Iscariot had the same assumption that he was the apple of God’s eye (John 6:70).
I think that we should take a good look at ourselves before we make such an assumption.
Jesus said, that it will be just like in the days of Noah, they were eating and they were drinking and they were sitting in a chat room and debating in which God they ought to believe in and be saved from the flood which is about to come.
ReplyDeleteNoah told them to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and then they would be saved from the great flood about to come, he even quoted the Scriptures to them (Acts 2:21 + 40) etc. but they were unwilling to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
Instead, they denied that the Name of the saviour is Jesus, and called Him by another name like 'Y'shua'.
They even denied the Name of the Father of Adam whose Name is Jesus who is the Christ and claimed that their father is the true god whose name was Jehovah, Yahweh or Allah etc.
They all stiffened their necks and would not repent of the preaching of our brother Noah till the flood came and washed them all away.
And so shall it be in the days to come, just like in the days of Noah.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteTaking the Bible in the literal sense doesn't mean we take every word and use it in the literal meaning of the purest form. We know that some terms are deeper than what it is written. With that said "exactly" does not mean we will do everything they did to a tee. I am sure there were things they did that we can't do or do not do just due to times of the age. There could be things "missing". Such as no more dinosaurs. That is his I would interpret it to answer your question.
Tim regarding 'sons of God', isn't John 1 v. 12 calling 'those who believe in His name' (the church) 'sons of God' - in some Bibles calling them 'children of God'? That is who the church today are, as that Word is the same yesterday, today and forever.
ReplyDeleteTim, Don't you think that picking and choosing what we take literally could be setting ourselves up for a fall. Why not take the Word of God as it is presented and be prepared for everything? I think that people become uncomfortable with Gods Word and Satan uses that to his advantage. Yes, I agree that there's no reason to defile the messianic line. However, who says that Satan doesn't have another trick up his sleeve. His method has always been to ensure us that we could be as god's and that God was holding us back.
ReplyDeleteBrenda, To support your line of thinking, the Hebrew b'nai Elohim, for sons of God, means direct creation of God, which includes Adam, angels, believers in the Messiah, etc.
ReplyDeletePaul, Once again, you are not going to get those, who read the Word of God, indoctrinated into your line of thinking. Wouldn't your efforts be better spent leaning on God's Spirit in an effort to better understand what the Word actually says. May I recommend starting over and reading the Word of God from scratch and finding two or more witnesses (scripture) to actually support your doctrine.
ReplyDeleteAs for what you said, it appears that only you are sitting in chat rooms attempting to debate which God. We already know the one and only God. We are challenging each other to better know him. Honestly, I would love for you to join the conversation.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is picking and choosing. When I say taking the Bible literally I mean that all that happens in the Bible is historically accurate and not just a metaphor or spiritual. Yet, I take every word as literal as possible but some scripture is not written for a literal sense--prophetic is one, poetic song of Solomon is another. They are meant to be analogical. If looking at the bigger picture we see a concept or an implication of idea then being strict literal is not the way it should be taken. Such as is there a real ten headed beast coming out of the sea? We can see from scripture (and this will make Paul go nuts) that God is multi-faceted. Although these can be taken more than one way if you adhere strictly to one doctrine or another, if we see the bigger picture we can see where things can be and/or have to be taken literally. So, it is not picking and choosing, there is discernment needed.
Brenda,
ReplyDeleteI think the terms here are different based on the context. If you notice in Genesis 6 the terms men and sons of God are used in the same verse. I think that separates the two types of beings. Men increased population with "daughters" and THEN the sons of God saw how beautiful they were and wanted them. It doesn't say sons of man saw others' daughters and wanted them. I think this makes a complete distinction between them. And THEN the Nephilim are mentioned after these unions being corrupted--sons of God living with the daughters of man and gave birth to THEIR children, again a distinct separation.
I think these were fallen angels sent by satan trying to corrupt the seed so much that they would obstruct the birth of Jesus. But God intervened every time and stopped them.
Hi Tim,
ReplyDeleteI think it is very difficult to explain. I believe that when we are born of the Spirit it is only then that spiritual discernment of the scriptures can be made.
The carnal person will read the scriptures carnally and will just see it as it is physically understood.
The end of Genesis ch. 4 says about men beginning to call upon the name of the Lord. Spiritually that to me is where the spiritual teaching of the Holy Spirit begins. In Jesus there is no male nor female so to me sons of God would just mean 'children of God'. It is very difficult for me to explain as I believe that the Bible is not just a book, it is a vocabulary in which God speaks to the individual as each works our their own salvation, and will speak and mean something to whoever it is being spoken to at the time it is being spoken.
The mix of the children of God (as it is written in some translation) with daughters of men could mean mixing with traditional churches as the true church is portrayed as the BRIDE of Christ,
Jesus is the Son of God - the church is His bride.
I find it a little difficult trying to explain what I see in the scriptures Tim - sorry about that.
Just to add, Tim. Nephilim means 'those who fall or who have fallen away', which could also mean those who have fallen away from the church.
ReplyDeleteHey Tim, We are in agreement that all Biblical events are to be taken literally and that some things are metaphors, spiritual and symbolic. My concern is normally when I find that I'm having difficulties understanding something, more times than not, the difficulty arises out of not taking it literally enough.
ReplyDeleteFor example, I firmly believe that the 10 headed serpent is to be taken literally. We have no idea what the spiritual world looks like, concerning demons and evil spirits. When the prophets were given prophesy, they were given a look into the spiritual realm. When they saw the future events unfolding before them, they saw the powers behind them and they described exactly how they appeared to them.
On the other hand, there are also parables and spiritual lesson given, that requires an analogical interpretation.
I so agree that discernment is vital. The issue, especially in this day and age, is it worldly discernment or spiritual discernment? Are we too conditioned to quickly discount such things, as we are talking about, because the world makes fun of it and has made us feel uncomfortable to discuss dragons and monsters?
Hi Brenda, How would it change your interpretation of Genesis 4, if I told you that the word for word translation of B'reshit/Genesis 4:26 was:
ReplyDelete"Seth, he bore a son, called his name Enosh, profanely called out the name of Yahweh."
Also, as I noted before, "sons of God", which is B'nai Elohim, in the Hebrew, refers to the direct creations of God, such as Adam, the Son of Man/Y'shua/Jesus, Angels, You and I as believers, etc.
Your thoughts?
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI can't fully understand the question you have asked me regarding Genesis 4:26., but I think you may get the gist of what I am trying to say regarding the first Adam here.
I believe that when we are born of the Spirit all scripture speaks to us in the present and it is the meaning of the name of the person, not the name itself that is important.
I believe the generations of the new testament could be signifying the 'rebuild' of the generations of the old testament Spiritually.
As the Adam in the old testament was formed from dust as a 'living being' and Y'shua (called the second Adam), who was born of God's Spirit was a 'life giving Spirit', then the characters in the old testament could be spiritually referring to we who are born again as we are being taught by the Holy Spirit.
I know that I can be reading the scriptures concerning someone who lived a few thousand years ago and the spiritual situation of that person can be the same as mine and I can either be encouraged by it or corrected by it.
It is said in 2 Timothy 3:16 that 'All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,' and this makes sense as far as having our minds renewed in Christ is concerned, as stated in Romans 12 v. 2
'Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - His good, pleasing and perfect will'.
'The old is gone the new has come' is coming into my mind.
I also notice that in Genesis 2 the chapter begins talking about the 'Heavens and the earth', yet when it mentions Adam it is speaking about the Adam of the 'earth', putting the generations of the earth first.
Thanks, Brenda, for stating your beliefs. As Tim said before, the Scriptures are multifaceted and open for multiple levels of interpretation. I see your interpretation as being on the symbolic / representative level, spoken by the scholars as modeling. It is taking a literal event and putting a futuristic or prophetic look at it. I like it. Even though I spend a lot of time in those extra levels of understanding, Y'shua has shown us the example keeping ourselves anchored in the literal.
ReplyDeleteI asked the question, concerning b'reshit/Genesis 4:26, because I see that would change your interpretation. Because chapter 5 is a literal genealogy with tremendous modeling and prophetic implications proclaiming the gospel, we can't miss the fact that the literal narrative of the chapter 4 leads right back into the literal narrative of chapter 6. My question was meant to explore the possibility of the man not calling upon the the name of the Lord but profaning the name of Yahweh. Would that change your interpretation as to the Spirit beginning to teach mankind, since they weren't calling upon the name of Yahweh, but beginning profane his name?
I still believe that it is literal Keith, but literal with no time scale. When we are born of the Spirit we are told that the things of God are discerned spiritually and so I can only portray what I see in the scriptures what I believe the Holy Spirit is revealing to me, which may be foolishness to my carnal mind, but is knowledge increasing within my renewed mind.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Genesis ch. 6 I can not see how there would be sons of God around before Jesus was born in the flesh, because in order to be a child of God we have to be born of the Spirit - which was not given until after Jesus was glorified as stated in John ch. 7 v. 39:-
'By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified'
Can I ask you Keith, what do you mean when you say Yahweh's name was beginning to be profaned?
ReplyDeleteBrenda, That's a good question. Ever since I found this out, I thought it could be a few things.
1. It was at this time, that man began to curse God for what Adam did in the garden and God's resulting punishment upon Adam and mankind.
Or
2. As a result of the shenanigans in chapter 4, maybe Satan was very successful and turned man again God.
Or
3. Maybe Satan was successful in changing the make up of man thereby showing them that they can be like God.
Or
4. Maybe Cain was very successful in spreading rumors and lies about God.
I honestly do not know, it is speculation.
However, the church wants to sugarcoat it and ignore the ramifications of what occurred, because it is uncomfortable for them.
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeletewhere you say the correct translation of Genesis ch. 4 v.26 is:-
'SETH, he bore a son, called his name ENOSH, PROFANELY called out the name of Yahweh.':-
Seth means 'ANOINTED'
Enosh means 'HUMAN BEING'
profane means 'POLUTED'
This to me would represent that the church today (THE ANOINTED) who are producing 'HUMAN' 'sons', not children of God, because of the traditions of man making void the Word of God,are calling on the name of the Lord (in this day Jesus, as God has made Him Lord) in a POLUTED manner.
I have put the words that go together in what I am trying to say in capitals to try to get you to understand the gist of what I am saying:-)
Hi Brenda, I agree with what you are saying. I do need to make a slight correction, if you will allow me. I hope you don't see this as splitting hairs. It is not intended as such. Enosh actually means mortal, as in meaning 'death presides within'. Knowing exactly what the Hebrew actually means will help the Remnant fully understand the Torah, especially when recognizing the first time the Gospel is clearly explained within the genealogy ofGenesis 4.
ReplyDeleteThis is also why the Lord is using us to show the different levels of understanding the Word of God, which leads me to why I initially asked you the question. With each level of understanding, a new revelation of God's plan is given to the seeker.
I know that you probably was wondering why I was pushing you o this. It is so important for the Remnant of God to recognize the validity of each level. We must not discount one in lieu of another. In the end, this does two things. One, it reveals the full plan of our salvation. Two, it shows that this book, we call the Bible, is indeed an integrated message system from beyond Time and Space.
Thanks for giving the true translation of Enosh. I would say that 'mortal' and 'human' both imply the 'perishable', but I would replace the word 'human' in my last comment and put 'mortal'.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible definitely is an integrated message from beyond time and space. Time and space mean can not limit God's message to us, as He is omnipresent and timeless. Had a lovely time out in the street on Friday, and a lovely time in the church gathering I went to this morning, where all are invited to share whatever they feel God gives them to share. No wonder that Word says 'For God so loved the world.'
God bless
Sorry Keith, the word 'mean' is not supposed to be in my last comment, ten things in my mind at once - typical of me :-)
ReplyDeleteHey Brenda, every time I inadvertently misspell, leave out, add words to my comments, it becomes increasingly obvious that I am imperfect. :-) LOL Praise God for Y'shua.
ReplyDeleteMe too:-)
ReplyDeleteBrenda,
ReplyDeleteI can see exactly what you are saying. You explained well. I agree 100% that when we look through the eyes of our spirit since we are reborn in the spirit then we see things OF the spirit. That is why many atheists cannot understand what faith is all about and what scripture is trying to tell us. That is why those who follow their own doctrine will get it wrong every time.
To both Keith and Brenda, I looked up verse 26 and the word "chalal" is the term we have moved on to. Keith says it means to profane. And I have seen that word definitely mean that but it also means "man began" so the next word, "qara" means to call or address and that is the word in question.
Here is where I got most of what I am saying:
Hebrew Transliteration
So, I believe it is when men called upon God because they knew they were not perfect. Enosh means "mortal". And after that man called upon the NAME OF THE LORD, and in Hebrew that is "YHWH". And then they started to really fall away faster than they were calling upon Him, that is for sure.
I like how you view the words sons of God. But I just think in this context it doesn't fit. In this case since there was no church it would have a different meaning. Now, since the OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed, the spiritual meaning that you picked up could be correct for today's time.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteWhen I say literal, I mean in the physical world. Literal is human physical history. It happened and no one can argue that (with legitimacy). However, in the spiritual world even the prophetic, poetic, and symbolic can for sure be literal! So there may be a 10 headed beast in the spiritual world but will mankind see an actual 10 headed beast come out of the sea? If mankind saw this thing wouldn't they turn to God right away? I mean, HOLY COW (using the nice word) is what the world would say. Imagine swimming at a local beach and you notice this thing rising up...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (insert emoji screaming).
I think the three of us are saying basically the same thing but with slight different viewpoints. And I am glad to have heard them.
Hi Tim,
ReplyDeleteregarding what you say here:-
'I like how you view the words sons of God. But I just think in this context it doesn't fit. In this case since there was no church it would have a different meaning.'
What I was trying to portray in my comment was that it works both ways.
To those who are carnally minded the physical interpretation is relevant, to those who have the mind of Christ (Spiritually minded) the spiritual interpretation is relevant. The difference between the descendants of the physical Adam who was formed from dust and the the ones who descend from the Spiritual Adam Who was a life giving Spirit.
Just a point regarding how we can be in the same spiritual state as those in the old testament (regarding how we can be encouraged and corrected through all scripture) - Luke ch. 1 v.17 states:-
'And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous — to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.'
I tend to agree with you here Tim:-
'I think the three of us are saying basically the same thing but with slight different viewpoints. And I am glad to have heard them.'
Forgot to say that Luke ch. 1, v.17 is talking about John the Baptist, although I am sure you knew this Tim :-)
ReplyDeleteBrendaJune 19, 2017 at 4:25 AM
ReplyDeleteSorry, made a mistake.
Just to add Tim and Keith,again :-)
Adam in the flesh lived for 130 years and then fathered a son in his own likeness. The number 130 in the Bible represents 'imperfection', and it is not coincidence that it was the flesh that was crucified on the day that Jesus bought our redemption. It, to me, is like saying the firs Adam of the flesh fathered imperfection in the flesh (in his own likeness as sinful man).
Tim, Don't you think that there is a literal physical and a literal spiritual realm? Literal means, "To understand or realize, without metaphor or allegory or symbolism. There's a difference between the literal spiritual realm and looking at things spiritually. God, Y'shua, the angels, all have spiritual bodies that can extend into our physical realm. To separate the two realms or to look at them as separate, causes us to lose clarity of the big picture.
ReplyDelete