That's right. When large cabbage white butterflies, as they are called, lay eggs on your cabbage or your cabbage starts showing signs of cabbage looper or worm damage, it sends off a specific scent. This odor repels other pregnant butterflies from laying more eggs on the plant and attracts two species of parasitic wasps. The wasps swoop in and attack the butterfly eggs and the caterpillars that have hatched from them. Another amazing example of design. However, some will say that this is a great example of evolution. Ok. How did the cabbage know what kind of scent would both repel the worm and attract the wasp? Evolution is still looking for that answer.
...and that's what you'll find When You Search For The Truth.
Keith that is beautiful. All I can say is 'It is a fool who says there is no God'.
ReplyDeleteHey Brenda. Thanks and I agree, wholeheartedly. It's funny. I just learned this tidbit of information, this week. I try to organically grow my garden. It's tough without chemicals. I was in the garden and realized that there were an enormous amount of wasps swarming over my cabbage and broccoli. At that time, I said, "Great, more pests to have to deal with." So, I look up wasps and how they could damage your garden. Lo and behold, they were God sent, to control the cabbage and broccoli pests. God works in mysterious ways.
ReplyDeleteHi Keith, I fully agree with that.
ReplyDeleteCan you see, that even intelligent scientists believe that all those things happen accidentally.
Perhaps they are just like theologians who say that God is three persons in one God :-)
Hi Paul, I pray that everyone will eventually understand God and his nature. I agree that he is not three. He is much more than three. He is infinite. I don't understand why people want to put God in a box and limit him. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.
ReplyDeleteKeith,
ReplyDeleteWhen I read the title I first thought of lobsters screaming as they are being boiled. You are deceptive. Shame on you :)
But see over 3.67934 billion years of budding and evolving, the Wasp KNEW to change and leanr how to eat these worms so the species could survive. But in the last 1.867322 billion years the wasp has shrunk in size because too many humans were eating all the cabbage and then grew stingers to keep the humans away.
(This is all sarcastic in case people thought I was being real)
No Keith, that is not true.
ReplyDeleteJesus said, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is ONE'.
Therefore, HE is NOT three and neither is HE much more than three.
God is simply ONE person Jesus Christ our LORD.
It was the Lord Jesus Christ who made those butterflies on your cabbage Keith and not a god called Yahweh.
About 35 years ago, when I did NOT know God. I was also looking at a butterfly, perhaps a little more colourful than the cabbage butterfly. I observed it for awhile, then a thought popped into my mind, there has to be a God to make such a complicated flying thing who had eyes to see, a little trunk to eat, digest, reproduce, and the list goes on and on.
In short, I really wanted to know that God who made that butterfly, I thought that if He (God) is that good and able to make a butterfly, a tiger, a zebra, a giraffe or even a mosquito, He surely has to be able to make Himself known to me (by that I mean, turning up in front of me just like the butterfly).
A long story short; on that day, it was a beautiful morning and I called out to God to make Himself known to me.
Now, at that time I did NOT know God, therefore I called on Jesus and on God and on the Father and on the Holy Spirit and asked them to show up in front of me so that I can know God.
After a long time of pleading with a God I did NOT know, Jesus Christ appeared to me on that day and I was a changed man. I did not needed to be told that I was born again. All the neighbourhood and the local town and all my friends etc. knew that I had an encounter with the living God Jesus Christ and was a changed man, old things have passed away and behold all things are new.
And after, many of my neighbours and friends also called on the name of the Lord Jesus and they came to know the living God Jesus Christ just as I.
Is there anything impossible for the one who created the cabbage butterfly ?
To all trinitarians, I can assure you that God is NOT three persons, and to all of you who believe in a god called Jehovah or any other god, you need to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
And if you really want to know God, then why don't YOU call on His Name just like I did.
It is one thing to know about God, it is another thing to know God.
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeletedon't you find it wonderful, which I do, that the butterfly is first a caterpillar, then a chrysalis and then a butterfly?
Yes Brenda, it is so wonderful to see the majesty of the Lord Jesus Christ in all of His creation. He marvellously fashioned every animal and insects after their kind, and to top it off, He made His own image and likeness in man, just like Himself, Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI stand in awe of Him, and only to Him are all honour and power and praise for ever and ever.
We are very much like the butterfly when we have been born again of God's Spirit Paul, as stated in Colossians ch. 2 vs. 12, 13:-
ReplyDelete'having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, '
It is wonderful how God has made us 'alive' with Jesus, getting rid of the earthly (the old man is now dead)and giving us power to become children of God - 'children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God.…' John 1 v.13.
What you have to do Paul, is see the difference between the flesh and the Spirit. The Spirit in Jesus was God Who is not seen, the flesh in Jesus is the man Who is seen.
ReplyDeleteThe Spirit in me since I have been born again is God which will continue, the flesh is that of the old man which will perish.
Paul, you're so cued up to jump on anything anybody says, regardless of the intent. So, using your rationale, God is very limited.
ReplyDeleteTim, You missed the fact that the butterflies are descended from Mothra.
ReplyDeleteHi Brenda, your analogy supports the fact that there is the Book of God's Word and the Book of Nature, that glorifies him and lays out his nature and his salvation plan.
ReplyDeleteKeith, can we truly fully understand the nature of God? I don't think so. As you have pointed out, God is limitless. How can limited man understand a limitless God?
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI believe that the first Adam of the flesh fathered 'imperfection' in the flesh (the first child he fathered being born when Adam was 130, which means 'imperfection' and 'despise inheritance'). If Adam had a child in his own likeness, a man who had sinned against God, then those descended from him would be imperfect too.
The second Adam, Jesus, Who was born of God's Spirit put an end to the sinful flesh, by becoming the sacrificial Lamb and enabled us to become children of God with Him, all being one with God in the Spirit.
I think the more we come together and share what we believe and our knowledge of the original languages, as you have, then the more our understanding of God's Word.
That Word is a living Word for both those who are in the flesh and those who are born of God's Spirit.
Brenda, that doctrine is NOT true.
DeleteA lot churches teach that doctrine because they first don't believe that Jesus is the Lord God Almighty and then they do not carefully read the Genesis account and think it logically through.
William,
ReplyDeleteThat is the key to everything! As a human we can never fully know the nature of God and those who use their intellect to understand Him will always misrepresent who He is. Very well said William, very well said.
We can only begin to understand God's ways when we become born again of God's Spirit because then we have the mind of Christ and are able to learn God's ways which are not our ways.
ReplyDelete'The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 'For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?' But we have the mind of Christ.'
1 Corinthians ch. 2 vs. 15,16
William, Tim and Brenda, I do agree with you that mortal man cannot fully understand the nature of God. However, he has given us an opportunity to explore his nature, as revealed within our time and space. Brenda is also correct that the only way to begin understanding God is to be born of the Spirit.
ReplyDeletePaul, either you missed my question or you ignored it. Are you saying that God is a limited God?
ReplyDeleteKeith, I do not use the term 'God is limited'. I do not know what you mean by that.
Delete1# Do you mean, 'God is limited in Himself' ? 2# Or do you mean, God is limited in what He can do ? 3# Or do you mean, God is limited in His nature?
Point 1# and 2# obviously NOT.
Point 3# I have a complete different understanding of the nature of God than all of you have.
All theologians understanding of the nature of God is like quicksand, you can never know what they are talking about, they are constantly changing the meaning and the solid foundation of the word "nature" with absolutely no Scriptural support. To them the word 'nature' is a vague and always changing concept, and they never come to know the truth.
They just play mind games with the ignorant in order to have some disciples sitting at their feet, but the strait and narrow road of the Lord Jesus they do not know.
Therefore it is important to fully understand the simple, solid and unchanging foundation of the nature of the Lord so that all can be in agreement in the knowledge of God.
What is the point for us to claim that we have the mind of Christ and say that no one can understand the nature of God ?
That to me is an oxymoron.
And it is the height of arrogance to say that 'no one understands' because I do not understand.
For how do you know what I understand and what I don't understand ?
In addition, all of you agree that you don't understand the nature of God.
DeleteThen WHY do you talk about the nature of God ?
Obviously, you then are talking about something you don't understand. That is called ignorance and speculation.
Brenda, you said,
ReplyDelete"The second Adam, Jesus, Who was born of God's Spirit put an end to the sinful flesh, by becoming the sacrificial Lamb and enabled us to become children of God with Him, all being one with God in the Spirit."
Could you expound on this? Are you saying that the sinful flesh has been done away with or a pathway to the end of sinful flesh has been established?
Keith,
ReplyDeleteYou know he ignored it.
I didn't mean we couldn't gain knowledge or shouldn't try to know God. But even if we are filled with the Holy Spirit all the moments of our lives we can still never fathom His total nature.
Tim, I'm with you, it's all about our desire and effort to know him as completely as possible, regardless of the outcome.
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeletewhat you have said regarding Jesus establishing a pathway to the end of sinful flesh is a perfect way of saying what I wanted to say. If it is ok with you I shall use your wording in my post. I have already edited it a little by adding more of what I wanted to say.
oops sorry again Keith,
ReplyDeleteI was thinking I had put that in my post, but it was in a comment I put that sentence. I fully agree with what you have said though regarding the subject. We still have a choice as to whether we follow Him down the road to reconciliation back to God or not.
Hi Brenda, Once again, we are in agreement. As for using the words, please do so. They're not mine, they're the Lord's. :-)
ReplyDeleteThat's ok Keith, I just meant using that sentence if I had put my sentence regarding that issue in my last post, but I had not, it was in one of my comments.
DeletePaul,
ReplyDeletewhere you say this in your reply to a comment above:-
'In addition, all of you agree that you don't understand the nature of God.'
I am not sure where I have said those words. However, it is God Himself Who says in Isaiah ch. 55 vs. 8,9:-
'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…'
We have to work out (that is not meaning doing 'works') our salvation in order to come to know God's ways and thoughts. It is a process.
Hi Brenda, why are your thoughts are not His thoughts ? don't you claim to have the mind of Christ ?
ReplyDeleteAnd why are His ways not your ways ?
Don't you think that there has to be something wrong ? Yes Brenda with you.
And tell me again, WHICH God is talking in Isaiah ?
Can't you see, you and I are talking about different (G)gods. To you the Old Testament God is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
But to me, the God of Genesis 1:1 is the same God as the God of Revelation, the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts and ways are becoming God's ways and thoughts as I work out my salvation, which is done through being born again of God's Spirit and having the mind of Christ (Who was born of God's Spirit and learned God's ways) Hebrews ch.5 vs.8,9 tell us that:-
'Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered, and having been MADE PERFECT, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…'
We go through the same process of learning obedience as our Lord Jesus did.
If you look at Isaiah 55 v.7b, it says:-
'let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
AND to our God, for he will abundantly pardon'
It is all down to whether we are in the Spirit or the flesh how that written Word speaks to us Paul.
ReplyDeleteHi Brenda, When exactly are your ways and thoughts God’s ways and thoughts ? 100 years from now ?
ReplyDeleteAre you the one who always learns and studies and NEVER comes to know the truth ?
You said, 'Hebrews ch. 5 vs. 8,9 tell us that:- ‘Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered, and having been MADE PERFECT, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…'
'We go through the same process of learning obedience as our Lord Jesus did.'
Brenda, I don't think that you understand that passage at all, and neither do you understand the rest of that passage.
Do you think that the Lord Jesus Christ is just the same as you are, a sinner who needs to be 'MADE PERFECT' ?
Certainly NOT !
The Lord Jesus Christ said, 'You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes' (Ps.50:21).
Isaiah 55:7, Yes Brenda, then why don't you turn back to the LORD ?
Well, to which LORD should you go back, to Yahweh ? or to the LORD JESUS Christ ?
Obviously there is only ONE LORD and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteRegarding what is written in Hebrews ch. 5 vs. 8,9 I will believe what scripture says above what all who contradict it say.
Psalm 51 is speaking to the 'wicked' who hate discipline.
We are disciplined by that Word and if we do not allow ourselves to be corrected by what is written there when it is speaking to us then we are being disobedient.
We are told that the Spirit will lead us into all truth. We do not have truth in our carnal minds.
No Brenda, you are NOT disciplined by the Word (the Bible), you are disciplined by the Lord Jesus Christ and the rod of correction.
ReplyDeleteAnd neither do you ALLOW yourself to be corrected.
Tell me, which child allows his father to discipline them ?
No Brenda, we ALL don't like the rod of correction, including me.
I always say, obedience is better than the rod.
Do you like suffering ?
I hope NOT ! then don't transgress the first and the second commandment of the Lord. which is, you shall have NO other god before the Lord Jesus Christ your ONLY God.
How do you think we are spoken too Paul. Are you admitting that you do not get spoken to by that written Word. Even Jesus, Whom God made our Lord said 'It is written'. You sound completely confused Paul.
ReplyDeletePaul, i've been reading the dialogue between you and Brenda. Are you perfect in your ways, Paul?
ReplyDeleteBrenda, tell me, WHICH God made Jesus your LORD ?
ReplyDeleteDo you mean that Buddha made Jesus your Lord?
Or did Krishna made Jesus your Lord ?
What about Allah, did he made Jesus your Lord?
Well, the Jehovah Witnesses will not be happy with you, they think that it is their god who made Jesus Christ lord.
Yes Brenda with a little ' l ', they think that Jehovah is the BIG Lord who made Jesus a little lord.
Brenda, I hope you can see how faaaar you have departed from the only God Jesus Christ our saviour (Jude 1:25).
The Word of God is written for correction in doctrine and in conduct so that you might repent.
The Lord Jesus Christ is my Father and He does speak to me just like a father speaks to his son.
What kind of a father would speak to his son THROUGH a book ?
Only to strangers He speaks through His Word, but His sheep, they hear His VOICE and when another speaks they do NOT go after him.
Aren't you always pointing out, Paul, verses from the English translation of the Bible?
DeleteTake note of what you have written yourself in your comment to me.
'The Word of God is written for correction in doctrine and in conduct so that you might repent'.
I agree.
No Keith, I'm not perfect, I'm a sinner just like you.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between you and me is, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you believe in a unbiblical god called Yahweh. And I wish that you would repent and also believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
Remember, I am a simple believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and there is nothing complicated about me. I'm quick to listen and eager to repent.
When I boast, I do not boast in myself, but I boast in the Lord Jesus Christ who is my God and my Father and if anyone has a problem with that, I'm sure that my Father will defend my case. For it is my Father who has sent me to tell you the truth and I do not lie.
I am NOT against you Keith and neither am I against Brenda, Tim, William or anyone else who reads those comments. I am FOR you so that you might be saved.
I do NOT have a hidden agenda Keith, and my language is plain and simple.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteonce again 'as it is written':-
'Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!'
Acts ch. 2 v. 36.
'The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.'
John ch. 3 vs. 35,36.
God is the Father, as shown here. Jesus is the Son.
Paul, Have you honestly ever stepped back and looked at your language? It's not plain and simple. It's confusing and convoluted. You avoid questions and switch positions. You don't listen. You immediately begin to spout your mantra, that has no basis in the scriptures.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to ask although I know it won't get answered but what translation Paul do you use? Please don't say "theres only one". I am simply asking is it NIV, ASV, NAS, ESV, KJV???
ReplyDeleteBrenda, I wish that you would believe those verses you have quoted, and above all I wish that you would understand them.
ReplyDeleteYou said, 'God is the Father, as shown here. Jesus is the Son.'
Brenda, we all know that God is the Father. But which God is the Father ?
God is a word meaning Deity, and Father is a title of the Deity 'God', therefore the question still remains, WHO holds that title 'Farther' ?
Remember, onto us is but ONE God and that is the Father (1 Cor. 8:6), and you shall ONLY worship the Father in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24).
And look, whom did they worship in Spirit and in truth (Matthew 28:9) ?
Can you see, they worshipped the Father whose Name is Jesus in Spirit and in truth. (Mat. 28:9)
So then, of which God is Jesus the son ?
In other words, does God need a son ?
And if he has a son, where is his wife ?
You cannot have a son without a wife. Adam could not have a son without Eve.
And for what does God need a son for ?
And what does the Scriptures say, (1 Tim. 3:16) GOD appeared in a body (Immanuel) God with us, and you shall CALL His Name JESUS. (Mat.1:21) Do you believe that ?
So then, I'll ask, did God had a son ? the answer is, certainly NOT, God IS the Son, and He has many sons starting with Adam (Luke 3:38).
Keith, I can't say it more simple than that; If Yahweh is 100% God and Y'shua is also 100% God, then you have TWO gods who are 100% god each, and when you say that both gods a one God, then you have a severe problem.
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly what the trinitarians say, they just add a third person and call all THREE one God.
And do you think that a trinitarian would repent of transgressing the first and the second commandment of the Lord ?
Well, I don't think so.
But what about you ? will you repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ just as I do ?
I'm sure we would make a good team to be ambassadors for Christ Jesus our Lord and ONLY God :-)
Ignoring me Paul?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteBrendaJune 26, 2017 at 2:56 AM
Paul,
why don't you quote the whole scripture instead of half of it.
You have taken one half of one verse and the whole of another verses and joined them together to try to make yourself right.
1 Corinthians 8 v.6 reads:-
' yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.'
If you notice in this verse it is shown that there is One God FROM whom are all things and FOR Whom we exist'
'and one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom are all things and THROUGH whom we exist.'
This makes Jesus the mediator.
Verse 25 of John ch. 4 goes on to say:-
'The woman said to him, 'I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.'
'Messiah means 'anointed One' or 'chosen One'
Verse 26 goes on to say:-
' Jesus said to her, 'I who speak to you am he' '
Jesus was telling the woman that He was the anointed One, or the chosen One.
Anointed - chosen by Who Paul.
I have to say Paul, you seem completely confused, saying that God needed a wife in order to have a Son, and then saying that God is the Son. Then if that is true, that God needed a wife to have a Son, and you say God is the Son - then according to your logic God the Son would need a mother and a father.
The scriptures can not be understood with the carnal mind Paul.
Brenda, I totally agree with you. First of all, you must have a base in the Scriptures alone. Second, you cannot understand the Scriptures with the carnal mind.
ReplyDeletePaul, in lies your problem. I hope one day you will come to the Word of God, in the Spirit , for complete understanding.
Brenda, are you saying that there is ONE God who is the Father and another ONE God through whom you exist and both are 100% God ? :-)
ReplyDeleteSo, you think that you exist THROUGH one God who is the mediator between you and the other God ?
Let me see, do you think that there is one God who is 100% God but NOT LORD, and another one who is 100% LORD and only 90% God ?
Don't laugh :-) but you told me that Jesus is only the mighty God and NOT the Almighty God.
Also, do you think that another god who is not mentioned in the Bible anointed the LORD Jesus Christ? For WHAT ?
Did this other god anointed the Lord Jesus Christ to create the heavens and the earth ?
Hmmm, I think I know who is confused.
'All things came into being THROUGH Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.' (John 1:3)
ReplyDeleteDo you think that another god anointed the Lord Jesus Christ to create the heavens and the earth?
I don't think so.
I believe what scripture says Paul.
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDelete'All things came into being THROUGH Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.' (John 1:3)
READ THE SCRIPTURES!!!! John was clearly referencing the Word of God, not the man, Jesus, who you have deified, above God.
Amen Keith, scripture makes perfect sense to those who are born of God's Spirit, who now have the mind of Christ. Thank God for Jesus, the wonderful sacrificial Lamb, through Whom I have redemption.
ReplyDeleteKeith, it would be nice if you would think what the Scriptures say, not just assume.
ReplyDeleteWas the Lord Jesus Christ in the beginning ?
And don't say that He was WITH another god called Yahweh.
I know that you can do better than that.
Paul, No, my friend, as much as you want to change the scriptures, what you are espousing is a product of your imagination and man made doctrines. Please, let's stick with what the scriptures actually say. I'm sure, that since you are an 'ambassador of thuth', we can agree on that.
ReplyDeleteThe scriptures are quite clear...Word of God = God manifested in the flesh = the man, Jesus. Therefore, no, Jesus was not in the beginning. The Word of God was in the beginning and all things came into being by the Word of God. Please, read the scriptures in it's entirety and get the whole picture, not your speculation.
Yes, I totally agree with you, Brenda, we, of the Spirit of God, understand the scriptures.
ReplyDeleteYes!!!! Praise God!!!! Y'shua, Jesus, was obedient unto death, as our Pesach Seh'Olah. Passover Lamb Offering.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteI am slightly disagreeing here. I don't think Jesus was a man in the "beginning". But I think He was more than just a word. I believe Jesus being God was there like God (spirit). Let US make man in OUR image. If Jesus was just the word then we would also be word. Bad example but I think you know what I mean.
And you should know the the first word in the Bible, Bresheet, says it all. The first letter bet and the second letter resh make the word Bar (Son). The Son is the Creator. Now there is a great connection here. His creation was done by word. And God said...let there be light. He breathed (synonym for speak maybe) life into man.
Now with that said, Jesus as a man, was still 100% God and 100% man. He was divine and power over all of the universe and creation, but His physical being was all man. He felt. He hurt. He cried. He laughed. And yes, His physical body died. God did not die but His physical body which He chose to live in and through did die.
John 3:9-18 says this: 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Notice in this passage He was called Son of Man and Son of God. He was 100% both. It is the only way He can judge us rightly. If He was 100% God ONLY then He never walked in our shoes. He wouldn't know what it is like to be in the world and thereby being unfair. If He was 100% man only then He has no power to rise from the dead or His death would not save us eternally. If He was 50% of both then He is not all powerful. Jesus was both 100% man AND 100% God.
Yes Keith you need to believe what the Scriptures said.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that in the beginning was "WORD"? What are you talking about ?
A WORD in the beginning, are you serious ?
Just read what the Scriptures actually says. Genesis 1:1, In the beginning GOD!
Now, when it says that in the beginning GOD, you need to ask yourself WHICH GOD was in the beginning ?
Was it TWO gods or was it ONE GOD ?
Now read the text again, what does it say ?
It doesn't say that in the beginning the gods created Adam in THEIR images. And neither does it say that one god gave the other god the command to create Adam in both of their image.
When you read it, think what it does say and what it does NOT say, and then come to an intelligent conclusion. Don't accept man made nonsense as Scriptures.
Hi Tim, you seem to believe just like Keith and Brenda, that one god gave another god the command to create Adam.
ReplyDeleteThe so called big God (Jehovah) gave his little son Y'shua the job to create the heavens and the earth and man in both of their images.
Well, that is exactly what all apostate churches teach all over the world.
The truth is, there is ONE God Jesus Christ and He alone created ALL things all alone. And He does NOT change, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
ReplyDeleteHe does NOT share DEITY with another!
Didn't say that Paul, did I? Same God. Difference is you're still on milk and it's turning sour. I now feast on the meat of the word. You add and subtract from the word to fit your doctrine just like you just did with my words. That is why you refuse to answer my questions on your blog.
ReplyDeleteTim, Where did I say Y'shua / Jesus was a man in the beginning?
ReplyDeleteMy wife calls me husband. My dad calls me son. Yet I am the same person. Can't get more simple for you to comprehend.
ReplyDeleteKeith, you say he was the word and made it sound like that's all He was.
ReplyDeleteKeith, now I see why you asked me that. You heard the wrong inflection. I meant I don't think he was a man BUT "let me explain what I do think". Does that make better sense now? Sorry.
ReplyDeletePaul, I challenge you to show me where the scriptures say that Jesus was in the beginning. John clearly and exclusively said that God brought forth all of creation by his Word. In the same way, God brought forth Y'shua/Jesus, by his Word. It says specifically that in John 1:14. It even says that in the English. Quit making things up.
ReplyDeleteTim, Most of what you said could have been cut and pasted from my comments and/or posts. We are in agreement except for your assertion that Jesus was in the beginning, which is not in the scriptures. I would gladly admit I'm wrong if you can show me where it says this.
ReplyDeleteKeith,. As I said I don't think Jesus as a man was there but his essence, persona, being, existence (pick a word) was there. Elohim. As I stated the word bar starts of whole Bible. As a man, no. In existence, yes. Otherwise Jesus is not God at all.
ReplyDeleteTim, I totally agree that the aspect or essence of God, which is Y'shua/Jesus, was there, in the beginning and that was the Word of God. I'm reminded of Micah, speaking of Y'shua, when he said,
ReplyDelete"But you, Beit-Lechem near Efrat,
so small among the clans of Y’hudah,
out of you will come forth to me
the future ruler of Isra’el,
whose origins are far in the past,
back in ancient times."
I believe the 'origins' speak of that which spoke him (Y'shua, the man, who would die in our place) into existence, and that was the Word of God, (John 1:14)perfected by the Spirit of God. All of which is Elohim. As a side note, God has no origins. If Jesus is the Father, then that would mean that God had a beginning. Again the Scriptures doesn't say that. God is beyond our time and space. What do you think?
Well Tim, I think that you feast from the forbidden tree.
ReplyDeleteTell me, which "same God" ? and tell me His Name, and then tell me, was there another one there who created the earth?
Keith, which passage do you want me to use first ? perhaps Colossians 1:16 'For BY Him ALL things were created ….. Through Him and for Him.'
ReplyDeleteWho is that ? The Lord Jesus Christ of course, and don't say that some other god created ALL things THROUGH Jesus.
Just red the Scriptures, it says BY HIM (JESUS).
Now go to Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth."
Now tell me, what is the Name of that GOD who created ALL things ?
It's not Einstein's theory Keith, just believe Colossians 1:16.
It is the Lord Jesus Christ who created ALL things !
Isaiah 44:24 'I am the LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I make ALL things ALONE !'
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you are saying here. What has to be remembered is the fact that it is the Spirit that Jesus the man was born of that is God. God is Spirit and has no beginning and no end.
There is also the fact that Jesus was without sin, but had to learn obedience. Hebrews ch. 5 vs. 7-9 state that:-
'During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered, and having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…'
Jesus was made perfect through learning obedience. We go through the same process when we are born again of God's Spirit. We are first given the milk of the Word and then the strong meat.
There are lots of things coming into my mind which I hope to put into another post (God willing) regarding the new heavens and the new earth, and Jesus being the true light that was coming into the world (which means the world was in darkness before He came).
Paul, Context, Context, Context. Did I say context? Why do you continue to not read the entire passage, but pick and choose which part of the scripture supports your position?
ReplyDeleteCol 1:16, if read in context, reveals the pre-eminence of our Lord Y'shua, not proof that he was there in the beginning. You misunderstand God, because you have a carnal mind. If you look at God, from before the beginning of time and space, you will see that God foresaw the need for a savior for all creation. Therefore, Y'shua, Jesus became the reason for all things. Look at the whole chapter, my friend.
As for Genesis 1:1, which is supported by John 1:1, it was the Word of God, not the man Y'shua. Quit making leaps of doctrinal faith. You are not doing anything for yourself, but show that you are a lemming, which will follow anything that your doctrine tells you instead of following the Lord and his truth.
As for Isaiah 44:24, it says,
"Here is what Yahweh says, your Redeemer,
he who formed you in the womb:
“I am Yahweh, who makes all things,
who stretched out the heavens all alone,
who spread out the earth all by myself."
You have got to quit burying your head in the ground, Paul. Quit making things up.
Finally, 1 Corinthians 8:6 drives it home.
'Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."
Quit making things up. You are being nothing, but an ambassador of confusion.
Stick with what the scriptures say, not what man has taught you. Believe what the Spirit is saying, not what man has told you.
Brenda, We are, again, in agreement. If you look at the scriptures, as a whole, there is no other interpretation that Elohim, the Father, the Spirit, the Word, etc, which is ECHAD. The Father is our loving God. His Spirit is his purpose and reasoning. His Word is the vehicle through which all things were and are created. Of course, His Son, through which all things are reconciled to Yahweh, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, I AM WHO I AM.
ReplyDeleteI have always loved, where God says 'I AM WHO I AM'
ReplyDeleteWhere I have written about the world being in darkness - I am talking about spiritual darkness.
ReplyDeleteBrenda,
ReplyDeleteEven more so is Philippians 2:8-11:
"and being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place, and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth"
Jesus was GIVEN the name AS a MAN of which He APPEARED to be.
This verse alone says it all. He appeared to us as a man which he was not a man before this. He came from God, as part of God, and His earthly name which means salvation of God.
As a man, He had to live like a man, but also had to remain pure. He went through all of our trials and pains. He felt all of our emotions as a man. he had to fight off all the same temptations we have and He won! But when He proved obedience His name became so powerful that now all men can be saved. If He failed as a man, that name would mean nothing. God's own emotions would have been His downfall. This shows that we can overcome temptation, but if we don't we have the name of Jesus to fall back on.
That is right Tim, He was born in the form of a man, but born of God's Spirit - which obviously came from God. When we are born of God's Spirit then we are one with Jesus and with God - in Spirit that is.
ReplyDeleteYes, we can overcome temptation through the counselling of God's Spirit within us, but we must endeavour not to wilfully sin when we know what is right
Hebrews ch. 10 vs. 25 - 27 reads:-
'Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.…'
We are also told in Hebrews ch. 6 vs. 4-6:-
'For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.'
There are warnings to us in the scriptures, and that is why we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
We also know that God understands we are flesh, and is merciful.
There is a time for us to receive all instruction from our spiritual manna, and I find it is an on-going process.
Tim and Brenda. Great Discussion and exactly as the scriptures, as a whole, dictates.
ReplyDeleteAnd the cabbage having this ability shows that there is a grand design and purpose for each and every thing in this universe.
ReplyDeleteBack on track...
BTW, I have a new person now commenting on the atheist dilemma post I have. He has great questions and is a learned person.
No Keith, the Lord Jesus was in the beginning ALONE there. He was NOT there with another god called Yahweh.
ReplyDeleteAnd neither did He foresee that we needed a saviour.
That was the plan of God the Lord Jesus Christ from before the Lord Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth.
There wasn’t another creator there in the beginning.
You, just like Brenda cannot distinguish between a metaphor and reality.
Yes, I can read the Scriptures just like you my friend.
Isaiah 44:24 doesn’t say that it is Yahweh, just read it properly. It says ‘Thus says the LORD (JESUS CHRIST) who is your redeemer’.
Yahweh is NOT a redeemer, only the Lord Jesus Christ is the redeemer.
And look what He said, ‘Stretching out the heavens by MYSELF and spreading out the earth all ALONE.’
Obviously there wasn’t another one there.
And yes, there is ONE God and ONE Father and ONE Lord and NOT THREE !
You supposed to believe in GOD and not in the gods.
No, Paul. You are wrong, I have no doubt that you can read the Scriptures, but you are reading things that are not there. Read what the Scriptures actually say, not what your doctrine dictates. Read the truth. Quit making things up. It's pretty straightforward language. Quit adding to the Scriptures .
ReplyDeleteThe challenge remains the same. Show me the name of Jesus, in the Old Testament. I totally agree that the Tanakh, Old Testament, reveals and testifies of our Lord Y'shua,. but it does not reveal him as you imply.
What about the butterfly? Poor thing.
ReplyDeleteThat is right,
ReplyDeletethe butterfly is a beautiful description of the fleshly being transformed into the spiritual, first the creature of the earth, then that creature going through the transforming process, then the creature that is able to rise up.
Keith, Jesus in the Old Testament was called only by His title LORD, because His NAME had not been given in the O.T. till He incarnated in flesh, in the new Testament Matthew 1:25.
ReplyDeleteAnd only from then on all creation knew the Name of God, and that is the reason why they blaspheme God’s one and only Name "Jesus".
Brenda, a fleshly being does not transform into the spiritual.
ReplyDeleteAnd neither does a man transform into something else, the natural stays always natural.
After Adam ALL mankind were born spiritually dead, and only God’s children will be born again.
They are the only ones that God will make alive in the Spirit and the rest will stay dead.
Nature sure couldn't do this by accident. A complete sign there is a designer.
ReplyDeleteThe transforming process in us is the renewing of the carnal mind Paul, not the flesh.
ReplyDeleteI thought you said you knew what a metaphor was.
Just to add - John ch. 1 v. 12 reads:-
ReplyDelete'Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--'
We ALL have to receive Jesus and believe in His name BEFORE we can become children of God.
Matthew 16:6 Brenda. The topic keeps going back to what he wants. That's some spoiled yeast.
ReplyDeleteSo, with that in mind, everything we are is designed with all purpose and for the universe to flow so easily.
God is the most wonderful designer Tim, and I am so glad that my times are in His hands.
ReplyDeleteBrenda,
ReplyDeleteJohn 1:12, I know what you think that means. But I have explained that a few times to you.
What you think is, that you can walk up to the Lord Jesus Christ and say to Him, NOW I am ready to receive you.
Perhaps just like you would walk up to the Queen of England and say to her, NOW I am ready to receive you.
What do you think that she would say to You ?
Well Brenda I can tell you exactly what she would say to you.
And also, I can tell you what the Lord Jesus Christ would say to you. Remember, I’m His ambassador.
Look Brenda, just read John 1:12 slowly and think what it does say and what it can NOT say.
It is possible that the Lord Jesus might let you see it.
Paul, it is very clear what John 1 v12 means - exactly what it says. What do you think it means?
ReplyDeleteBrenda, if you know what John 1:12 means, then tell me.
ReplyDeleteDon't quote John 1:12 I am quite capable to read it myself, but please tell me what it means ?
Why haven't you answered my question Paul?
ReplyDeleteBrenda, concerning John 1:12 I have asked you whether you can explain what it means.
DeleteI already have explained what it does NOT and what it can NOT mean; so then, you explain what you think that it means ?
Brenda, he won't answer you. He is playing with you. You know the answer. All he does is change your focus. Leave him be. This post was about the great design of God with an example of an animal and fruit and he turned into his obsessive rant. Let him do that on his own blog. You know he is wrong. The world when they read him knows he is wrong just by his predictive tactics. No matter what you say to him he will not answer you.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know that what you are saying is right Tim. I have been wondering if I should continue any more interacting with Paul as he does not appear to want to believe the scriptures. I opened my Bible this morning to the scripture regarding shaking the dust of our feet and I truly believe that the Lord has had you confirm this to me through your comment.
ReplyDeleteAlso I agree with you concerning the distraction from what Keith's blog posts are about (which I find very interesting).
God bless you Tim.
As with all comments and studies, we should always allow the Spirit to guide as he desires, regardless of what direction it may lead. However, when there is a disruptive force within our midst, we should always go to the Lord in prayer for guidance and be willing to dust the dust from our feet. I've been praying about this recently and the Spirit has indicated that I only engage in conversations that are strictly supported by the scriptures. No made up ideas. Speculation is allowed but all speculation, metaphors and higher levels of understanding must be confirmed by scripture.
ReplyDeleteBrenda and Tim, I do love the metaphor of the butterfly reflecting our spiritual and physical growth as children of God. I also believe that these examples of divine design are for the edification of the children of God and usually interpreted as such by those who have the gift of the Spirit.
ReplyDeleteI do too Keith. I never cease to be amazed at how that written Word speaks and is accompanied many times with signs and wonders, many of which come from both God's beautiful creation and simple happenings in my life.
ReplyDeleteTim,
ReplyDeleteI have put your blogs on my side bar, I hope that you will continue to put up posts, I enjoy your discussions.
Thank you. With your permission I will add yours to mine so people not only can hear a great message but hear and see a great talent.
ReplyDeleteOh, I am still on sure if I agree with the latter half of your sentence, but as for the first half - of course you can. Are the two Tim's coming up in Keith's blog the same Tim? I can get into the blogs when I press on the one with the blue and white flag, but not on the other one.
ReplyDeleteSame Tim. I have two accounts. One is my cell phone which is not a real account only convenience and the one with a picture is my Yahoo account the good one. Keith only has a few friends I doubt if he knows two Tims. 😀
ReplyDeleteAwwww..... I think Keith would have many friends :-)
ReplyDeleteFunny man, Tim! Funny man.
ReplyDeleteBrenda, Actually, I have four friends, named Tim. That's what Facebook says. :-) LOL Are you on Facebook? Tim is one of the last holdouts.
No, I came off Facebook because I did not have the time to read about what people had for breakfast and that they were waiting on the bus stop. I don't mean to be rude to my younger relatives, but I believe it was not for me. I enjoy interacting on blogs:-)
ReplyDeleteAmen.
ReplyDeleteHi Brenda, I agree that Facebook can be a great consumer of time. I limit myself to just a few minutes a day to keep in contact with people I don't see on a regular basis. I primarily use it as an out reach both on my personal and my public pages. My public and personal pages pretty much mirror my Perceptions blog. My public page is called Tge Truth About God, The Universe and Everything Else.
ReplyDeletehttps://m.facebook.com/FreedomThruTruth/?ref=bookmarks
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleterecently noticed your last comment here. Do not know that much about Facebook as someone helped me to open my account some years ago and I can't even remember how to get back into it. Will have a go to see if I can join the public one.
Hi Keith again,
ReplyDeletejust realized that it is what you share on your blog that is shared on your public Facebook page, so there is no need for me to go into it.
Hi Brenda, I'm a lazy blogger. I usually take my blog and put it on the public Facebook page. :-) It is great to note that there is a lot of traffic to the Facebook page, from Southeast Asia, specifically India. Pretty cool how God works.
ReplyDeleteThat is good Keith, I love how the Lord works. Sometimes things really surprise me. When I look into my page views I find that there are over 150 views from Russia in one day sometimes, yet no comments come from there. Strange, as I have always loved Russia and took the Russian language course, but only for one year. The college could not get enough students for a second year.
ReplyDeleteI tested my limited Russian on a soldier after the Berlin wall came down and ended up with a little egg on my face :-) It was a lovely experience though.