Did you know that Predestination, another false, man-made doctrine, that has split the church, was not thought up, until almost two hundred years after Y'shua, Jesus, walked upon this earth?
In contrast to the teachings of the Messiah and the apostle writings, Origen, a Greek Theologian, developed the doctrine of predestination, around 250 AD. Predestination, a belief that God, before the world was created, chose individuals to believe, while deliberately discarding others to Hell, is not supported by the whole Counsel of God, a complete understanding of the scriptures. Even the Catholic Church never canonized Origen, as a saint, because some of his teachings directly contradicted the teachings attributed to the apostles, notably the Apostles Paul and John.
However, Predestination continues to be taught and believed, by those who don't read the Bible, for themselves. Acts 17:11 tells us to receive the message, with all eagerness of heart, but search the scriptures daily, to determine it's truthfulness.
In the end, the deciding factor for me was the fact that if God chose some of us to be sinless, through the Messiah, then he also chose the other people to sin. Also, if God chose who would obey his will, then he caused Adam and Eve to sin, in the first place, which got us in the mess, we are in. I'm sorry, but that is just against his nature.
Bottom line: God foreknew or predetermined who, through their own free will, would come to accept him, through his son, Y'shua.
...and that's what you'll find, When You Search For The Truth.
Well my friend, I think that you should look into the Scriptural predestination and not in that of which you think is predestination.
ReplyDeleteMany Bible students have a wrong assumption concerning the predestination of God and therefore they come to wrong conclusions.
Perhaps you should read the Scriptures without a presupposition and perhaps you might love the predestination of God.
It's good stuff my friend :-)
Hi Paul, Believe it or not, I look at the scriptures, every time I discuss the scriptures. That's what Acts 17:11 tells us to do. You should try it sometime. :-)LOL
ReplyDeleteI am full aware of what the Doctrine of Predestination entails. The point is that it is not scriptural. You can't escape the fact that the Doctrine of Predestination was not taught by Y'shua, Jesus, his apostles or by the original church and was created some 200 years after Y'shua, Jesus, walked upon this earth. It's a perfect example of Satan, through man, attempting to muddy the waters and cause division, within the Body of the Messiah. Even the word, predestination, isn't in the Bible. It's an English misinterpretation of the Greek word, proorizō. You should follow Acts 17:11 and check it out for yourself.
Hi Keith, Acts 17:11 does not mention predestination, for that you need to read the Bible my friend.
ReplyDeleteRom. 8:29 and 33, "For those He foreknew He also predestined …......"
There are many passages in the Scripture that speaks about the predestination or election.
I suggest the English Bible is a good start:-)
Nearly forget, according to your post, I think that you do not understand God's predestination doctrine.
ReplyDeleteI never said Acts 17:11 was about predestination. As I said it and f you would read it properly, it tells us to receive the message but check it out for ourselves to whether it is true. I am glad you read it. Now, I hope you will follow it.
ReplyDeleteActs 17:11 goes both ways, for you and for me my friend.
ReplyDeleteBut that doesn't eliminate the predestination of God.
Ok, I'll bite. Hypothetically, let's ignore the fact that the doctrine of predestination goes against everything else in the Bible and say that predestination is really mentioned in the Bible. What is your doctrine of predestination and how is it different from what I wrote in the post?
ReplyDeleteIn simple terms; God predestined some for a particular salvation, and He rejected others.
ReplyDeleteIn other words; God predestined His children who were in Christ before the foundation of the world to be saved from eternal death and to be born again as a free gift of God, while He rejected Satan's children to ever see that life.
Predestination is another word for election or chosen.
Those three words demand an opposite, which is rejection, none elected.
Those who are rejected are in enmity with those who are predestined from the beginning of creation like Cain and Abel to this very day.
To clarify, are you saying that, before the beginning of time, God chose some to be save or he knew that some would be saved? Also, didn't he create all mankind?
ReplyDeleteYes that's right, the Lord causes ONLY His children to be saved from eternal death, and only they will be born again as a free gift of God lest they may boast.
ReplyDeleteYou said, 'didn't He created all mankind ?'
Well, not in His own image, just read what the Scriptures said, (Gen. 1:26) Then God said, Let 'US MAKE' man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness.
Obviously, the 'US' doesn't mean the Lord alone.
The US is God the Father and His Son making mankind in their image,(Spiritual) which began two thousand years ago and will be accomplished soon (on the sixth day according to one day being as a thousand years). Jesus said 'Today and tomorrow I do cures, the third day I shall be perfected.' In the spiritual this is talking about the fourth and fifth day Jesus doing cures (as in the church being formed), and the third day He (we as being the body of Christ) will be perfected. That is the fulfilment of the second Adam, the One born of the Spirit.
ReplyDeleteHi Paul, first of all, I see no difference between your explanation or version of predestination and what my post says.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that you brought up the issue of causality. You said it your self. With every action, there is a reaction. If God causes some to be saved then he called the others to denouce God and perish. Again, that's against his nature. You would understand that if you read the whole of scripture in context.
With that said, as I read your comments, it becomes increasingly obvious that you have confused doctrines and come to an erroneous position. It happens when you rely on an erroneous English translation of the Scriptures and have not relied on God's Spirit to lead you into all truth. I see that a lot in the King James Only cults. Your cult is no different, in that you raise your erroneous English Bible above the true Word of God. Satan has led many, like you, astray with confusing text.
Unfortunately, I will be driving a while. Please give me a few hours to complete this explanation to you.
No Brenda, those doctrines are NOT true, they are man made doctrines to tickle your ears and lead you away from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeletePaul,I believe absolutely that the Lord revealed this to me, the scriptures are discerned spiritually. I was not taught this by man, I love being taught by God. As the scriptures say 'No man shall say 'Know the Lord', they shall all be taught by God. (Hebrews ch. 8 v. 11) Praise His lovely name.
ReplyDeleteSo we are finished with the predestination discussion? Good with me. It was a no brainer, anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that our "Creation of Man" discussion has bled over into this post, also.
ReplyDeleteA couple of things:
1. The "US" is the God part of Y'shua, Jesus, The Word of God, not the Man part of Y'shua. The man part gave full credit and glory to God alone for creating man, in Mark 10:6. Also, the Man Y'shua, Jesus, grew in knowledge and obedience, Luke 2:52 and Hebrews 5:8, in the process of becoming perfect. Both God and The Word of God is eternally perfect.
2. There are two human lines, one Messianic, that started with Adam, the other, humanistic, which started on the sixth day.
The humanistic line was destroyed, in the flood, because of Angelic Corruption.
The Messianic line continued, but splintered and once again, disobeyed God and has once again been corrupted by the fallen ones, except one, that was Y'shua, Jesus, who was both Word of God Manifested and Man. Because he was perfected through his obedience, he was the beginning of the perfected spiritual Messianic line. We have power, through our free will, to accept that way of life and become B'nai Elohim, Sons of God.
As for the days, they model God's plan, 3000 years for the Torah, 2000 years for Spiritual Messianic Line to become complete and 1000 years of restful Messianic rest and reign, before the judgement.
I agree with what you have said Keith, the US is God and the Word of God, which was made flesh. Jesus (Yahweh saves) spoke and did only what the Father told Him to speak and do. He is the One and only mediator between man and God, through Whom we can be reconciled back to God.
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ReplyDeleteBrendaNovember 23, 2016 at 3:58 AM
By the way, I agree concerning the 2000 and 3000 years, and it was also symbolic that in Genesis ch. 1 the sun and the moon, the two great lights, were formed on the fourth day. Jesus is likened to the sun and the church is likened to the moon (which can only reflect the light of the sun), it has no light of its own.
Jesus came, and the church was formed, four thousand years after Adam was formed, as in one day is as a thousand years.
Just a little thing that is always on my mind concerning 'predestination', but not quite as Paul sees it :-
ReplyDeleteEver since I have been born again of God's Spirit I have felt 'in this world but not of this world', and when right at the beginning the words from Jeremiah ch. 1 verse 5 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.' were spoken to me there was a connection with my 'near death experience' I had when I was twenty eight years old, seven years previous.
I have always felt that place, which I believe was the third heaven that Paul the apostle speaks of, was the place I was taken to, which was more 'real' to me than this world. I had been there before I was born, I know this.
Hi Brenda, I always enjoyed reciting Jeremiah 1:5, as an affirmation of God knowing me personally, before I was even formed in the womb. However, after learning Hebrew, I found out that Jeremiah was yet another mistranslated verse. It actually says,
ReplyDelete"Before being formed in the belly, I knew you would come forth, from the womb and set yourself apart, as a prophet, to the nations."
God was giving Jeremiah, a pep talk, because he had a lack of confidence, in his own abilities.
Pertaining to you, I believe you when you say that God used those words, to you, during your near death experience, to set you on your path. However, it is not a supporting verse for predestination. It is a supporting verse for divine intervention, in order for path correction. Either way, whether it is you or Jeremiah, both had the free will to disobey God and go your own way.
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleteIt is not the word 'predestination' that I would use here. The actual translation fits what I believe was being said to me through that verse in Jeremiah 1., and goes together with the verse that was highlighted to me from Psalm 139 v. 16:-
Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.'
Just as John the Baptist went in the spirit of Elijah, I believe that God uses those instructions to characters from the old testament to show us the path we should take spiritually at a particular time. As it says in 2 Timothy ch. 3 vs. 16:-
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works'
17:-'encouragement, correction, teaching
Sorry, left a bit of text at the end that I should have deleted.
ReplyDeleteHi Brenda, I apologize. I did not mean to imply that you believed in predestination, as Paul and most believe. I do believe that God, knowing the beginning from the end, sees all of history, at a glance, and guides us along the way, his way. I just wanted to make sure that if anyone reads this, they will see the truth.
ReplyDeleteYou do bring up another interesting point. The books that God has, in which our names are written, The Book of Rememberence, The Book of Generations and the most important one being The Book of Life. But that's another subject, for another time. It is important to remember that our sins are indeed covered by the Blood of Messiah, but our actions are well chronicled, within Annals of God.
No need to apologize Keith, I know that you do not 'predestine' what I am thinking -:), I just felt to share what was revealed to me regarding the verses in Jeremiah ch. 1. Through sharing testimonies we all understand one another more. I agree with you over our actions as there are many who fall away and sin wilfully. We all have a choice, and I do not believe in 'once saved, always saved' as salvation is something we have to individually 'work out'.
ReplyDeleteoops... put my smiley face with the eyes looking upwards instead of down - can't be bad though eh? :-)
ReplyDeleteLOL I like Puns and I agree.
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