For seeing with my own eyes that this will result in my deliverance through your prayers and the supply of Spirit in Y’shua Messiah in my anxious and persistent expectation and hope because without shame but in all free and fearless confidence as always to presently give the Messiah glory and praise in my body by life or by death. For me to live a life worthy of the Messiah and to die is gain.
Amazing to see the words that Paul uses, when he writes. Here in verse 19, he uses the Greek word 'eido'. Eido is normally interpreted as 'to know', kind of like seeing with your mind, which is true, but it also can be used convey as 'literally seeing with his eyes'. This verse gives us the allusion that Pauls faith is so great, that he could literally see the Philippians faithfulness. Knowing that God moved Paul to write this also for you and me, could Paul also perceive the Remnants faithfulness, throughout history. I don't know the answer, for sure, but it is amazing what we can do, with the help of God's Spirit, if we only engage.
Now, did Paul literally see a future meeting with the Philippians? Did he see the future Remnant's faithfulness. For me, I honestly think so. That is how God rewards the faithful...with eyes to see the future of his Kingdom.
Notice, also, how Paul describes our prayers, through the Spirit. He writes in verse 20,
"in my anxious and persistent expectation and hope because without shame but in all free and fearless confidence..."
In modern day lingo, we should pray with such an assurance that we can literally taste it. Let's reach out and Eido (Literally See) that our prayers are already answered. I think that we sell God short sometimes. If we are of the Remnant and in the Will of God, then our prayers should be a statement of what the future will be. I have to admit, I am weak and lack the faith sometimes. However, the power is there. We just have to tap into it and use it for the edification and well-being of the Remnant and the advancement of the Kingdom of God.
I also love the last statement. So many people say that it is great to die for the Messiah, but Paul tells us that living or dying for the Messiah is equally advantageous. I hear that it's so great to die for a cause, but I honestly feel that it's easy to die. But to live for God, by the Messiah's example, in his Spirit, is hard and lot more rewarding. However, whether you die or live for the Messiah, it is for his and God's glory, not ours and will have the same outcome.
Philippians 1:22-25
Nevertheless, if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor, but what is chosen, I know not.
For I am besieged by both, having desire for what is forbidden to depart from life and be with the Messiah, by far, much better. But, persevering, in the flesh, is necessary because of you (Agape)
and with this confidence, I believe I will remain and continue to live for you all for your progress and joy of Faith.
Every time I read these verses, I wonder how many people actually see what is going on.
Paul is wondering whether God is going to allow him to live or die for the cause. Then he tells us that he is contemplating suicide because, in his old age, it would be so much better to be with the Messiah. Please think about that for a little bit. Here we have a man of God contemplating taking his own life, to go home with the savior. Now, I'm not advocating suicide. However, if you have thought about suicide, you aren't alone.
Many have contemplated suicide.
With that said, notice verse 24 and 25. It implies that suicide is selfish. To persevere through the suicidal times is to show your agape, your committed love to God and to your brothers and sisters in the Messiah. You should also have confidence that God has a plan for you and that plan includes edifying your brothers and sisters and furthering the Kingdom. This will surely result in the Joy of Faith.
What is the Joy of Faith?
The Joy of Faith is the assurance that you gain, whenever your Faith is increased. This happens in so many ways. The Proof of God is out there. All we have to do is step out on Faith and open our eyes.
Philippians 1:26
In order that your rejoicing and boastful glorifying be exceeding to the greatest extent in Y’shua, the Messiah, with me, by my coming to you again.
So many people have interpret this as an example of Paul's arrogance. He is saying that you'll be so happy to see me, that you will praise the Messiah to your upmost. Your praise will be greater than it ever has been or will be in the future. Now, to be honest, if we are echad, one with each other, then we should be extremely happy to see each other, all the time, that we would praise God, to the fullest extent. Paul is just stating the plain facts of the family relationship, within the Kingdom of God.
Philippians 1:27-30
But, behave as a citizen worthy of the grace of God, through the Messiah whether I come and see you or am absent, hearing your accounts that you’re standing firm in one Spirit, only one mind, striving together, faithfully in God’s Grace through the Messiah, and in nothing or no one, God Forbid, be terrified by those who present opposition or earnestly demonstrates heresies, moreover your salvation and that which would separate you from God, because your forgiveness, on your behalf, is by the Messiah. Nothing Else!!! Only by committing yourself unto him, moreover also feeling the passion or suffering with him, having his battles, such as what you have seen in me and now hearing by me.
Paul kind of switches gears, but not entirely. He reminds them that, whether God allows him to come to Philippi or not, they should act as though they are worthy of God's Grace. Don't be arrogant in the Spirit. Unfortunately, many Christians act as though we are special human being, when in reality, we are the same as everyone else, the typical human that has faith in a God, that has saved us. At the end of everyday, we should ask ourselves, if we are acting as if we were worthy of God's Grace.
He wants to hear that they are standing in the Spirit, with one mind, acting as one. This is one of the many verses that shows that there is only one true way to interpret the scriptures. With so many Christians believing something differently, real Christians continually search out for the real scripture, the real life, the real God, while the luke-warm Christians do not.
Now, that doesn't mean if we believe differently, that some of us are not real Christians. No. However, when you don't continually search the scriptures to see if your beliefs are in accordance with the Full Counsel Of God, it does reflect where your true allegiance are, God or Man or Satan. It will also restrict your access to the throne room of God and your ability to tap into His Spiritual Power.
Again, the Remnant, the Real Christian, will search the scriptures daily to see if what they believe is according to God's Word and his Will. Doing so will allow you the ability to live "faithfully in God’s Grace through the Messiah."
Notice that Paul goes on to say that if your beliefs are in opposition to the Book of God or the demonstrative Book of Nature, you are supporting and demonstrating heresies. However, he also tells us that even these destructive heresies cannot separate you from God's forgiveness. This is due to your forgiveness, salvation, is based on the Messiah, nothing else.
Finally, he reiterates that your life should demonstrate a passion or suffering that reveals that you are engaging in his battles not yours. I hate to sound like a broken record, but you should live a life worthy of the Grace of God. You should live your life according to God's Will, His Word and His Truth. A slight deviation, from God's Will, His Word and His Truth, prohibits full access.
Finally, I don't understand the average Christian, especially in these times. We have access to the original writings, amazing tools, literary access and science to reveal the intricacies of God, but we continue to cling to what the local minister says, while ignoring God's Truth. God is crying out to you. Answer his call. Seek him out.
Finally, I don't understand the average Christian, especially in these times. We have access to the original writings, amazing tools, literary access and science to reveal the intricacies of God, but we continue to cling to what the local minister says, while ignoring God's Truth. God is crying out to you. Answer his call. Seek him out.
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI believe the overall scenario of what Paul says here is the fact that he can identify with others and what they are going through both in the flesh and in the spirit. I don't necessarily think that he is desiring to kill himself, but that he is desiring to leave the fleshly suffering of living on earth, and this is how many people who might be contemplating suicide could be encouraged not to by his words. If we have empathy, then we have sympathy.
I also think that he may be thinking this way because it is thought that the man he speaks about who is carried away to the third heaven could be himself. I could definitely understand a person wishing to be in that place as I have experienced being there too, as I have shared before. As believers born again of God's Holy spirit we have a mission, regardless of how we might feel in the flesh. However, I also see in his words a strong desire to share what he is learning from the Holy spirit. What it reminds me of is Jesus saying 'Not my will, but Your will' to God, (although I could never imagine going through what Jesus went through) and that is what I find myself saying in a sense as my desire is to do the will of God while I am on earth.
I find that working out my salvation is an on-going journey and I continue to ask for my faith to be increased daily, and for any form of doubt to be removed.
Thank you Keith for sharing something which can be discussed in a nice manner, as you encourage people to give their thoughts on what you believe.
God bless you and yours.
Hi Brenda, I agree that the theme for the whole chapter, so far, is Echad, oneness for the true body of Christ and that they should take comfort and identify with Paul, in the fact that his tribulations are and will be their tribulations and that tribulations are for the Glory of God, through the Messiah. (Sorry for the run-on sentence :-))
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I like your statement. "If we have empathy, then we have sympathy." I totally agree that it's so much easier to feel for someone, if you can identify with them.
As for Paul possibly contemplating suicide, in verse 23, he is definitely battling with a decision, concerning living or dying.
"For I am besieged by both, having desire for what is forbidden to depart from life and be with the Messiah, by far, much better. But, persevering, in the flesh, is necessary because of you (Agape)"
I am open to other possibilities. What do you think that he meant, when he said, "...having desire for what is forbidden to depart from life and be with the Messiah..."? The key word is "forbidden".
As for Paul going to the 3rd heaven, I think the scripture says that it was not Paul, but someone he knew. I'll look at that again, but Paul is not embarrassed about boasting about himself and that is one thing that Paul would have grabbed on with both hands. He does not, but he then diverts the subject to his weaknesses.
As to sharing what the Spirit has given him, no doubt. We are in total agreement.
You bring up a great point, which reminds me of our current conversation with Laurie. Paul had reservations about going on, in the same way that Y'shua had in Gethsemane. God would not have had reservations and would not have asked, "Is there another way?"
Once again, Great Discussion!!! I look forward to hearing your thoughts, as we grow closer to our God.
Hi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI think it was in a particular Bible, at the bottom of the page where someone said they thought Paul might have been speaking about himself regarding being carried away to the third heaven. That shows me that I must always go back to scripture to check, and reveals to me just how something can stay in your mind, especially when what is spoken about lines up exactly with what you have experienced yourself (as in my experience to being taken to the third heaven). I just googled this question 'was it Paul the apostle who was carried away to the third heaven? and many sited came up saying that it was, so I may have looked at that many years ago, I don't know.
Regarding 'empathy' and 'sympathy' Keith, I believe that 'empathy' helps us to refrain from judging.
Hi Keith and Brenda,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brenda that Paul was not contemplating suicide, but rather was expressing his desire to be with Jesus, a desire all born-again believers share as we realize that we are but pilgrims passing through a sin-weary world, and we long to be home. The KJV does not use the word "forbidden":
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
So Paul concludes his musing with the knowledge and confidence that he will continue his God-given mission.
As for Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, He did not ask if there was another way, but rather:
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Here, being 100% Divine, Jesus portrays His omniscience in that He clearly knows the agony of what is about to transpire, which would not be possible if He were merely human. Yet He also portrays His perfect human nature by dreading what is to come, yet submitting completely to the Father's will. What a wonderful example of obedience and submission He set for all of us!
God bless,
Laurie
I have to admit that some of the trials that I have gone through, and very much the experience I had during my near death experience, have caused me to want to be in that beautiful place I was taken to, which I believe was the third heaven. However, I also realize that there is a mission that we are called to do on earth when we become born again of God's Spirit, and those trials actually strengthen me to do that mission, as I believe Paul would have felt. As God wants all to be saved, so too would I want all to be taken to that beautiful place and have eternal life. The only way that we are joined as one with God, and become His children, is in the Spirit, and Jesus was the first to be born of that Spirit becoming the first of many brethren (those who are born of that same Spirit after Him).
ReplyDeleteHey Brenda and Laurie, I'm not particularly sold on the suicide angle. However, the Greek word "epithymia", translated in many Bibles, as "desire", in verse 23, actually means, "craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust". If you combine a desire for what is forbidden with a life and death decision, what is the first thing that you think of. Also, there is another word to imply what you are thinking and that is the Greek word "aiteĊ", which Paul uses in Colossians 1:9, Matthew uses in Matt 20:20, Mark or Peter uses in Mark 11:24, Luke uses in Acts 12:20 and so on.
ReplyDeleteAs for the KJV and other English Bibles, there are plenty of omissions and additions to the original text, that makes them unreliable to discern what God's Word actually says. However, I am a firm believer that God has maintained the salvation theme and plan through all versions, in spite of the translators implied or inadvertent misinterpretation of the text, according to his or her doctrine.
As for Y'shua/Jesus being 100% divine, that is different from him being God. The scriptures are quite clear that Y'shua/Jesus is 100% man and 100% divine. Y'shua/Jesus proclaimed himself the Son of Man and the Son of God.
Ephesians 3:19 and Colossians 2:9 clearly state that the fulness of God dwelled within Y'shua/Jesus. That is what Immanuel means. If you extend that to the Remnant, God's Spirit dwells within us also.
Finally, Y'shua/Jesus was not omniscient. There are plenty of places, that immediately comes to mind, where he did not know all things. A couple of great examples that comes to mind is his statement that no one knows the time of his return (Matt 24:36) and his asking the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" or a Word For Word translation, "Why did you leave me?", when on the cross. I can go on.
I bring up Matt 24:36, because the KJV interpreters deliberately left out two words, "oude huios" that were in the original Greek text. Translated word for word, it says, "not the son".
God has given me the mission of exposing the Great Biblical Conspiracy and the resulting Theological Conditioning that has plagued the Body of Christ. The Word for Word translation is part of that. Your thoughts?
Hey Brenda, I agree. There nothing wrong with recognizing our human short comings. I, myself, have been in some desire situations, where I've thought that suicide would be viable solution. But, as Paul says here in Philippians, that would be selfish and would deprive the Body of my Agape and would deprive me of the faith building experience, that I went through.
ReplyDeleteHi Keith,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you have said regarding Y'shua and YHWH's relationship. there are many instances where Y'shua has verified His status here.
Luke ch. 18 v.19 states His as saying:-
'“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. '
1 Corinthians ch. 15 vs. 26 - 28 reads:-
'The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.…'
I love the way the scriptures unfold and reveal the truth when we seek that truth.
I agree with what you say about the KJV, I have heard and discovered many discrepancies in it.
I have never felt like committing suicide, but I have often wanted to be back in the third Heaven.
Hey Brenda, I totally agree. The examples can go on and on. It's amazing once the blinders of Institutionalized Theological Conditioning falls to the wayside, how everything fits and your faith is increased by how convergent the scriptures are, instead of a view where different doctrines fight each other.
ReplyDeleteThat is right Keith,
ReplyDeleteand I have been thinking about what you say is the interpretation of what Paul is saying:-
"For I am besieged by both, having desire for what is forbidden to depart from life and be with the Messiah, by far, much better. But, persevering, in the flesh, is necessary because of you (Agape)"
I believe the word 'forbidden' has to be the correct interpretation.
I think that if you adjust the two commas ,, then you have:-
"For I am besieged by both, having desire for what is forbidden, to depart from life and be with the Messiah, by far much better. But, persevering, in the flesh, is necessary because of you (Agape)"
I think then he is saying that what he desires (to depart from life and to be with the Messiah) is not allowed him (forbidden) as it is not the time. I think he could be saying that if he had a choice then he would want to go to be with the Messiah, but that God has set a time for every day of his life, which is already written in His book (Psalm 139 v.16), including a time to die(Psalm 3 v.2).
That way the word 'forbidden' makes sense in the sentence.
I’m good with that, Brenda and I can see that as a viable reading. The key here is that we get back to Word and accept what it says, not what we want it to say. I honestly think that is why we have soo many translations. Groups of people get together and say the Bible doesn’t say what I believe, so I’ll make another one. Strange world we live in.
ReplyDeleteVery strange world Keith, but I love interacting and discussing scripture, especially when someone speaks and understands the original language. I think I have shared this with you before, but I find the Hebrew language reminds me of the Welsh language, which has deeper meaning within it than the English language. As the word 'dysgu' (pronounced dusgee) means both to learn and to teach, so the Hebrew language has deep content within it.
ReplyDeleteScripture clearly states that Jesus (the Word) is God (John 1:1); that He was present from the beginning (John 1:1; Rev. 1:8,11, etc.), and that He is the Creator of all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Keith, you agree that He is 100% divine, but then claim that He is not God? This seems but a semantic argument.
ReplyDeleteHow else would you define One Who has existed since the beginning and Who created all things? God is not the author of confusion but of peace, and I do not believe He would restrict proper interpretation of Scripture to those who can read the original languages. I believe and trust in what the KJV says, as it was the first widely available English translation. It remained the only translation for several hundred years, when distortions of God's Word were introduced in the name of new "translations" that are actually new interpretations. Scriptures cautions against adding to or taking away from the words of this book, which has been one of Satan's strategies since Gen. 3.
Keith, what English version are you quoting from in your blog post, and Brenda, if you have found discrepancies in the KJV, what English version do you consider to be superior?
God bless,
Laurie
Hi Laurie,
ReplyDeleteI believe all translations of the Bible have discrepancies, but that does not restrict us from learning God's ways when we become born of the Spirit, and yes the Word of God was with God and was God. God used our Lord Jesus to speak to us and to reconcile us back to Him. The Spirit in Jesus was the invisible God, and He was the firstborn of the Spirit, the first of many brethren. We can all become children of God through being born of the Holy Spirit. As Jesus said, it is the Spirit that counts, the flesh counts for nothing. There is so much in John ch. 6 that explains all of what we are discussing, and what really matters is that when we are taught by that Word through the leading of the Spirit then we are all joined as one in Jesus with God, all parts of the body of Christ on earth, and must do what we are each called to do - as Jesus did when He was on the earth.
Everything is done THROUGH Jesus, the One mediator between man and God. I love the ways and thoughts of God, they are so much higher than man's ways and thoughts.
God bless
Hi Brenda,
DeleteThanks for your response. I believe that all Scripture was inspired by God, and that He would not allow His Word to become adulterated in the original translations into other languages. The problem comes in when man creates new versions that modify the original translation, either to make money by establishing a new copyright, or to deliberately alter God's Word for a Satanic agenda.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God, equal with the Holy Spirit and God the Father.
1 John 5:7: For there are three that bear record (i.e. have authority)in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The Word here refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, not to the Spirit, Who here is referred to as the Holy Ghost.
The mystery that is so beyond our thoughts and ways, and one that I believe we will not fully understand until we reach glory, is why the Lord Jesus Christ, Creator of all and present as God with the Father and Spirit since the beginning, would willingly leave Heaven and take on human flesh (for 33 years) just to be the perfect, sinless sacrifice to pay for all our sins while we were still His enemies. He then became the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29), meaning that He was the first to ascend into a glorified body, as we shall at the Rapture. The phrase "firstborn of the Spirit" does not appear anywhere in the KJV.
Praise the Lord that His thoughts and ways are higher than ours. If we could understand Him completely, we would be gods ourselves. To Him be all the praise and glory!
God bless you,
Laurie
Hi Laurie,
ReplyDeletethe KJN states in ch. 5 vs. 5-10:
'5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Verse 5 actually says that the one that overcomes the world is the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, and verse 10 says that God gave the record of His Son.
Laurie, I don't mind that we disagree on what the scriptures say, perhaps it is best that we do as you have suggested to Keith - agree to disagree. It is up to you, we can continue the discussion if you like. There are so many scriptures that prove that Jesus is the Son of God.
Ephesians ch. 1 vs. 15-20 state:-
'Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.
It is not us that has all knowledge Laurie - it is what is written that provides it, and we acquire more as we grow in the Lord Jesus. I always love interacting and sharing on the blogs.
God bless.
Just to add Laurie,
ReplyDeleteLuke ch. 1 v.35 reads:-
'The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.'
So rather than say that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, I should have said that after the Holy Spirit came to Mary and the power of the Most High overshadowed her, the child developing in her would be called the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit was a vital part in the forming of Jesus in the womb and there was no involvement of fleshly man.
God bless.